Template talk:ME-ref/Letters

Letters23

I can quite see the temptation to wish to replace this template but we clearly can't, as there are hundreds of places that use it, and it is cited as {{harvnb|Carpenter|1981}} which can't be updated so simply.

I think what we should do is create a new template, Template:ME-ref/Letters23 (or near offer), for the new edition. It would be nicest to be able to cite that with {{harvnb|Carpenter|2023}}, ignoring the Tolkiens, so that the old refs can be updated painlessly as and when. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, to save faffing about, I've created the new template (per the bluelink above), the only change from the version just proposed being the 2023 date and the addition of "23" to the name of the template and the abbreviation. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:54, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Crossposted from my talk page: (Hohum ^@) 15:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I went through all the pages linked to the letters reference template and adjusted the handful that were, mostly erroneously, using the template with citations to page numbers in the 1981 edition. The vast majority of references are to letter, rather than page, numbers. As such, updating this template to use the revised edition will allow letter # citations from either the older or revised edition to be used accurately... rather than having two separate, largely overlapping, citation sources. --CBD 15:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great work, thank you. The update procedure is below, in the next thread. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:52, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced all the page numbers in those two articles with letter references. This clears the way for the update procedure as written to be applied. This can of course be done piecemeal (one article at a time, and the new template inserted there). When no uses of the old template remain we can delete the old template, at which point we are free to move/rename the new template to "Letters", leaving a redirect just in case. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:42, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update procedure

Anyone who wishes to update an article to use the new edition will need to do the following:

1) Replace {{Letters}} in the list of Sources with {{Letters23}}.

2) Replace all instances of {{harvnb|Carpenter|1981|loc=...}} with {{harvnb|Carpenter|2023|loc=...}}

3) Replace "Letter 219" to Allen & Unwin, 14 October 1959 (or "#219") with "Letter 220" or "#220" as appropriate. These two letters were in the wrong order; the old 220 was in fact written the day before the old 219.

4) Replace "Letter 220" (or "#220") to Naomi Mitchison with "Letter 219" or "#219" as appropriate.

The "new" letters, not present in the 1981 edition, are numbered uniquely so as not to conflict with the existing numbering, as for example #140a, #140b, #140c in between the mercifully unchanged #140 and #141.

Note that there should be no page numbers in any letter reference (or in any reference to TH or LOTR, for that matter), so that references remain independent of edition.

Hope this is clear to everyone. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]