Template talk:Jct/Archive/2022

nolink parameter

Although |nolink n = works as described in the documentation, the generalized |nolink= does not. Useddenim (talk) 00:47, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that's a known issue. I haven't quite figured out what made it work before. –Fredddie™ 04:59, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Lua errors

I noticed messages re Lua errors in the infobox in the Loakan Road article. Looking for the reason these errors, I* looked at the docs for {{jct}}. I note that messages re Lua errors are also present there. This looks to me as if it ought to be addressed here (I don't do Lua). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 15:55, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

There are no script errors related to {{Jct}} on [1] so it looks to be all clear now. –Fredddie™ 17:49, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Shield height for |rdt=

Changes made to Module:Jct over the last four months have disrupted the |rdt= function. Shields should be no taller than 17px (rather than the default height) so as to not break Route Diagram Templates. Would someone please fix this? Useddenim (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

I am concerned about this change and think that it could be controversial, and also there is no draft copy in a sandbox, so I would suggest that this request be declined. --Rschen7754 06:35, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rschen7754: When the {{{rdt}}} option was added in 2014 the icon height was set to x17px; however, earlier this year Freddie unilaterally decided to impose WP:RJL standards onto Route Diagram Templates even though it disrupts the line spacing. And there is no draft copy in the sandbox because I don't code Lua. Useddenim (talk) 09:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure what RJL has to do with anything, but all images that are called by {{Jct}} now correctly display the correct aspect ratio based on the smallest size of the image. –Fredddie™ 17:31, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fredddie: That's fine for general use, but RDTs depend on an invariable fixed line height. Useddenim (talk) 18:41, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

To editor Useddenim: is there an example that can be studied that depicts the problem you want to be solved? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:36, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Take a look at the lines with the National Highways on Template:Railways around Delhi. Useddenim (talk) 18:41, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Not sure what is wrong. All four Jct templates have |rdt=y and all four shields are 17px in my Chrome browser. What am I missing? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Well, I've looked at it in four different browsers on three different computers (in Chrome, Edge, Firefox, & Safari running under Windows, OS-X and iOS) and it's not displaying correctly. Useddenim (talk) 21:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Useddenim: You have to explain to us what is not displaying correctly. Everything looks fine to the untrained eye. –Fredddie™ 23:23, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

For the n^th time, "tall" marker signs are not being shortened to x17px causing gaps to appear between rows of Route Diagrams (particularly noticeable between the two NH44 signs). Fredddie, this was already explained to you. Useddenim (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Did you ever stop to think that someone who didn't see the original discussion might not see a problem? Instead you're getting bent out of shape for two fucking pixels that you seem to be the only person who gives a shit about it. –Fredddie™ 01:20, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

The module edits back to 23 July 2021 have been removed in the sandbox, after which they were compared in the {{Railways around Delhi}} template in preview. There are no discernible differences in the gaps, which makes me think that if the gaps are larger, made so by shields that are taller than 17px, then they have been that way for quite awhile – much longer than just the "last four months". Is it possible that you are just now noticing a difference? that the edits which changed the shield aspect ratio were done much longer ago? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 09:12, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

The {{Railways around Delhi/sandbox}} page has been created to use {{Jct/sandbox}}, which invokes Module:Jct/sandbox. Compare that with {{Railways around Delhi}}. There don't seem to be very noticable differences in gaps nor any differences in shield dimensions – 17px by 23px in both cases. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 09:27, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

That's because Module:Jct doesn't control the sizes of shields. Module:Road data does. I've reverted back to a July 2021 version of Module:Road data/sandbox and things work as Useddenim wants them to. I will have significantly more time in a couple weeks to work on this than I do right now. –Fredddie™ 14:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fredddie: Thank you; that's precisely what I wanted. (Was it really that difficult to make the change?) Useddenim (talk) 20:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Does this mean that the Road data sandbox can go live? or do you want to wait? In any case going to shut this one down for now, since you have a handle on it. And thank you very much! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 16:49, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

No, because tall shields are not displaying correctly for regular uses of Jct, you know, the primary purpose of this template. Like I said, I will have more time in the coming weeks than I do right now. –Fredddie™ 22:53, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Update

Use {{Jctrdt}} going forward. I am going to remove rdt functionality from Jct soon, so switch over any and all instances of {{Jct}} in RDTs. –Fredddie™

So you expect me to update almost 1,000 RDTs because you're too lazy to code something properly? WRONG ANSWER. Useddenim (talk) 16:24, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Works well in the {{Railways around Delhi/sandbox}}. Even 1,000 pages wouldn't take too long with AWB? Thinking down the road, though, it might still be better to update the Jct template with what's been done to the Jctrdt template. Maybe {{Jct}} should invoke the better module, Jctrdt? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 20:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Just working with templates using the Indian road signs, there are 123 templates to review. -- WOSlinker (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

The problem is that you're basically trying to make one template that serves purpose A serve purpose B. It would be better to move these functions to a different template. --Rschen7754 21:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

@Rschen7754: When the |rdt= parameter was added to {{Jct}} a fixed height of x17px was pretty-much accepted as the way to go. While editing the module earlier this year Fredddie made an undiscussed change to the height display, and was then unwilling to restore the function [2] [3][4][5]. Useddenim (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

I am done commenting on this so long as Useddenim keeps accusing me of bad faith. –Fredddie™ 20:58, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

As someone who's been casually observing this conversation, I think {{jctrdt}} would work. If it's too hard to manually update {{jct}} to {{jctrdt}} in RDTs, then there's always the option of replacing them using AWB or sending in a bot request. – Epicgenius (talk) 21:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

@Fredddie: You make WP:AGF difficult given your comment of 01:20, 29 July 2022. Useddenim (talk) 21:18, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Seems like more than just 2px as my software brings the shields in at width=17px, height=23px. Just sayin'. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 22:38, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Also, the shields in the template sandbox come in at width=13px, height=17px (sandbox uses {{jctrdt}}), just fyi. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 23:31, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Template updates

Here are some of the things I've been working on to update the template in order of importance:

1. Removal of template-level ifexists to greatly improve performance wrt hitting transclusion limits (missing shields will be redlinks)
2. Shield size = 24px
3. Deprecation of rdt (see above)
4. Direction banners (for USA) can be turned on whenever. For CAN, I'd like to get them to go below the shield, which will take some time to figure out.
5. |nolink= will work again
6. I created a new pagename hook for images with a WP:FUR

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to see in Jct. –Fredddie™ 15:25, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

1. I think this is how it used to be, and I think it will be better to find missing graphics and create them as needed.

2. Like It will be a subtle change, but it will make various things just a little easier to read. I'm curious about the sizing for Ontario's graphics because they're proportionally so much taller, but overall I think this will be good when done.

4. I'm looking forward to this greatly. To put my enthusiasm in context, back when I started editing in 2005–2006, we didn't use jct for Michigan. I recall that we had a different template that needed to be substituted on use, and it had directional plates as part of the process, something we lost in converting over to jct. As far as I'm concerned, this is something 16 years in the making to regain functionality and not really a new feature being added.

As a quick note, commons:Commons:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Auxiliary plates has the library of various plates. We probably should add a few columns for French and bilingual styles and work on filling in the missing graphics before turning on the directional plates for Canada. Eight of the provinces plus the territories would have English plates, Québec would use French and New Brunswick would use bilingual plates, if my memory is correct. Imzadi 1979 → 17:37, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Here is an example of the new pagename hook:

CO.NW = {
	shield = "", --not free
	shieldmain = {
		hook = "pagename",
		article = "Northwest Parkway",
 		iftrue = "Northwest Parkway logo.png",
	},
	name = "Northwest Parkway",
    link = "Northwest Parkway",
    abbr = "Northwest Parkway",
	maint = "Northwest Parkway Public Highway Authority"
}

The default is '' so unless you want to display something else, it is not necessary to specify a default value. –Fredddie™ 01:58, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

It looks like 5 of the 6 items have been implemented. I'm in full support of the last, upsizing to 24px as the baseline. I think it will make things just a little more legible and recognizable. I just looked through the testcases pages, and I see benefits with ssome of the international examples, like the South African R highways (those diamonds are a bit small at 20px) and the Mexican Federal Highways (the "MEXICO" text crosses over to being legible at the larger size). For the US, the banner plates are more legible as well. Overall, I think the change is subtle enough that many won't notice what was changed, unlike the directional banners appearing earlier today, but it will make things just a bit easier to read. Imzadi 1979 → 01:48, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

One other thing that I've added to the template is the ability to display different shields if |to#= is used. This is a standard practice in Ontario and it's already set up for them.

{{Jct|province=ON|ON|401|to2=y|ON|402}}

Highway 401 to Highway 402

What other features are you wanting? I'm kinda surprised there hasn't been much of any discussion here. –Fredddie™ 14:42, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Has {{jctname}} been getting the same upgrades to stay compatible? Imzadi 1979 → 20:50, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Looks like it is:

• Thunder Bay Expressway (Highway 17) to Highway 61

Imzadi 1979 → 21:07, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes as I mentioned off-wiki, {{Jctname}} simply takes the same parameters that {{Jct}} uses and rearranges the output. –Fredddie™ 00:24, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Emergency management extra icons

I just wanted to test the water and see if there would be support for adding and to Module:Road data/extra. If you can think of other emergency management files to add, I would not be against adding those either. –Fredddie™ 00:48, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I could go with that. Would we want to add them as extras, or a type though? Imzadi 1979 → 04:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Highway (not intersecting route) disambiguation

I'm trying to disambiguate this (from the infobox on A322 highway):

{{jct|country=RUS|AH|64}}

AH64

I would like it to link to AH64 (highway). The template doc says |dabN= should work for intersecting routes, but this isn't one of those, so that (or the obvious modification) doesn't work:

|dab1=highway -> AH64

|dab=highway -> AH64

Is this supported at all? I gather (from trying, painfully, to read Lua on my phone) that this may just be a per-country setting and can't be overridden. 3mi1y (talk) 07:46, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

|dabN= does work, but not automatically. It has to be specifically inserted in the code, in this case Module:Road data/strings/ASIA. I've done so and also hardcoded AH64 as AH64 (highway)

AH64

AH62 (no dab)

AH62 (dab)

–Fredddie™ 19:06, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Is it possible to have the route name not linked?

Is it possible to have the route name not linked? I would like to have the route name not linked on Mitchell Freeway. If it is not possible, then can that functionality be added? Steelkamp (talk) 11:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

@Steelkamp: like this:

• Mounts Bay Road (State Route 5) – Nedlands, Fremantle, Perth City Centre
• Mounts Bay Road (State Route 5) – Nedlands, Fremantle, Perth City Centre

To get the latter, add |nolink1=yes to the code in {{jctname}}. Imzadi 1979 → 17:52, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Steelkamp (talk) 21:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Marker size

Back in August, several changes were tested and implemented. Of the list, only an increase in thee base marker size from 20px to 24px was not implemented. At the time, I mentioned that the slight increase would promote some legibility. I'm hoping this is still something we could do. Imzadi 1979 → 02:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

This will be a simple change to make, just changing a couple 20s to 24. One benefit to this is that banners and direction plates will be centered on wide shields. At the 25x20 aspect that we have now, there is one more pixel on one side. –Fredddie™ 05:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Marker size

Back in August, several changes were tested and implemented. Of the list, only an increase in thee base marker size from 20px to 24px was not implemented. At the time, I mentioned that the slight increase would promote some legibility. I'm hoping this is still something we could do. Imzadi 1979 → 02:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

This will be a simple change to make, just changing a couple 20s to 24. One benefit to this is that banners and direction plates will be centered on wide shields. At the 25x20 aspect that we have now, there is one more pixel on one side. –Fredddie™ 05:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Any opposition to such a change? Shall we make it? Imzadi 1979 → 20:58, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a big deal. However, is there a sample page somewhere that has the new Jct template in use (or manually coded to simulate the new)? I'm sitting at my home computer now, and if there is I could compare on both my big screen and mobile to see if there's any stark damage done to the formatting of a sample article. Dave (talk) 03:39, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Template:Jct/testcases. I have already made the changes, but there is a legacy jct column (from before the banners were fixed) where you can see the difference. –Fredddie™ 22:34, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

@Fredddie: Sorry I didn't see this until now, and it's likely too late. Still, I've got your testcases page up on a 32" monitor, a 21" monitor, 14" netbook and 5" cell phone. Nothing looks seriously broken, though I have to ask what is going on with the 6th row from the bottom, there appear to be some errors in the coding as the first two columns look nothing like the 3rd (US verses Iowa 99 shield and the orange banners not present in one). Except for that, the smaller the display the more entries require one additional row in the table to display, but that's to be expected. Dave (talk) 03:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

That was a test to make sure that "toshields" are working correctly. In Ontario, they use a different shield for "To Highway 402": {{Jct|state=MI|I|69|I|94|to3=y|ON|402}} I-69 / I-94 to Highway 402. That being said, the "legacy Jct" did not support "toshields" or banners, so it looks entirely different. –Fredddie™ 22:34, 31 December 2022 (UTC)