Template talk:Infobox Hindu temple

caption box for pic

needs a caption parameter for the pic.--D-Boy 17:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I've added a provision to include a caption now. Please see if it is okay.--thunderboltz^(Deepu) 15:45, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Script name

Instead of having 2 separate lines for script name and script - can we have it in a single line? To be more clear, right now under the name section, we show:

Script name : Malayalam

Script : വൈക്കം മഹാദേവ ക്ഷേത്രം

Can the box be updated to show it as

Malayalam: വൈക്കം മഹാദേവ ക്ഷേത്രം

- Virtualage (talk) 04:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I can do that. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 23:54, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Why is the image parameter deprecated?

Why is the image parameter deprecated? Banaticus (talk) 02:58, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Nobody knows? Should it be undeprecated? Banaticus (talk) 04:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Telugu

Needs Telugu field in the script. Telugu language being 3rd largest spoken in India.--Vin09 (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Vin09, a few options. (1) we can add this as a parameter, we just need to know the placement, (2) we go with the method used by {{infobox settlement}}, which allows for free form transliteration parameters, (3) we used something like {{infobox name module}}. Frietjes (talk) 14:17, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Marker

@Frietjes: the symbol for Hindu temples in many maps, such as the OpenStreet map, is the om symbol. Is it possible to replace the the gray triangle marker in this template with the om () symbol? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:39, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

possible, yes, but we should see if anyone objects. the only major issue I see would be colour contrast. Frietjes (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

@Frietjes: choose whatever color combination works. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Ms Sarah Welch, done, will see if anyone complains. Frietjes (talk) 19:01, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Replace all languages with Native name

Hi can we replace all languages (tamil, malayalam, chinese, bengali, etc.) with native_name and native_name_lang. I believe adding only few languages may lead to disputes and may be it is violating neutral point of view (NPOV) policy of Wikipedia as 1. India is having many languages and 2. Temples are distributed not only in the states where the mentioned languages are spoken but all over India. And always I believe it would be better that a temple be mentioned in English and its native name only instead of all other language. This may reduce disputes. agasthyathepirate agasthya 19:06, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

agasthyathepirate, I added |native_name= and |native_name_lang=. Frietjes (talk) 14:21, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Since we have native name now, shouldn't the different languages be removed Frietjes & agasthyathepirate? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 03:10, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes Capankajsmilyo, native name can refer to all different languages in India. Thats my initial suggestion too, to remove all local languages. Frietjes, I hope we can remove all local languages with a single native name. agasthyathepirate(talk) 13:43, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

@Capankajsmilyo and Agasthyathepirate:, first we need to empty Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names by moving those to the |native_name= possibly using the {{native name}} template to visibly indicate the language where appropriate. a bot could be useful for this task. Frietjes (talk) 14:16, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Can it be done with a script or it has to be done manually? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 16:24, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Capankajsmilyo, I could write some javascript to do it. Frietjes (talk) 17:44, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with this, Agasthya. A settlement within a linguistic region may use its native language alone. But in case of temples, this doesn't apply. 1) many temples have been renovated by kings of different regions and have inscriptions in different languages. 2) though temple is in a linguistic region in present day, it need not the be case always. Some have been in different linguistic region earlier. 3) Some temples are in border regions and have names in different languages (not talking about variant of same name) 4) Many Temples have been mentioned in literary works of different languages. 5) Some temples still use multiple languages to worship the gods and hymns/mantras/poems are in different languages. So, I would suggest adding the native name as well as in english and also in the relevant languages in which the temple is mentioned historically or has a literary work based on that in that language. This way we can include the appropriate ones. All the above mentioned points invalidate your second point. "India has thousands of languages" is not a valid statement here. We aren't adding all(or specific) languages (with intention) to create disputes. In case, if any language is associated with a temple, let it be included. I am not talking about giving variations of a same name in different languages(like chandra, chandran). I hope this doesn't create dispute :) -தமிழ்க்குரிசில் (talk) 16:26, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

@Frietjes: Can you please write and run that script. Thanks in advance. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 03:13, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

I could write some javascript to do most of it, but I'm not going to be the one to execute it. Frietjes (talk) 15:09, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

I will be happy to try if you could let me know how to do it. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 16:30, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

How to choose

Someone here needs to figure out how to choose which native name to use, in which language, for articles like Annapurna Devi Mandir (four non-English names) in Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:04, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

In case of many names, opt for none. Further, you can see MOS:IS for some clarity. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 14:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

That looks easy, then. In the section above, you appeared to be waiting for instructions on how to clean up the category. It looks like you can simply go into the articles in the category and strip out the various parameters with script names. It's only 1000 pages, so it shouldn't take too long. Go for it, and let me know if you get stuck. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:04, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, 1000 pages manually is not possible. Is there any script? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 18:35, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

??? I fixed 100+ pages for you in half an hour the other day, without using a script. In what way is 1,000 pages "not possible"? Open up 20 or 30 pages in browser tabs, click Edit on each one, delete the language parameters, click Save. Then do another 20 or 30 pages. If you do 30 a day, you'll be done in a month. I find that it takes much less than one minute per page. (edited to add: I think the number of pages with actual script language parameters is closer to 350. Work on the pages in Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with unknown parameters first, and then I'll take another look at the template code to see why there are so many more in the "multiple names" category.)– Jonesey95 (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorting remaining "name" parameters

It looks like there are a few hundred articles using one of the "name" parameters that do not exist in Infobox religious building. The only allowed name parameters are |name=, |native_name=, and |native_name_lang=. I have adjusted the template to find articles using those parameters and place them in Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:17, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

Cleaned

 Done Last week I have celaned up the ~800 infoboxes with these language issues in . Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names (0) had some 100 articles with multiple parameters used: |native_name, proper_name, other_names, script, script_lang=. Also, Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with unknown parameters (21) listed infoboxes that used only one single abandoned parameter (usually |proper_name=; ~800). I used the most useful name in {{native_name}}, usually a single local language name (in non-Latin script). Also when a name in English was strongly different from article title or infobox title, I kept it in |native_name=. Also when the extra names was made extra carefully (e.g., using {{lang}} template) I kept those. In other cases, I deleted the extra names and the abandoned parameters. Keeping a meaningful different name this way implies also that the name kept may not exactly be a native name. I preferred keeping the info instead of over-deleting. Sometime the |name= needed an adjustment along in the process.

The abandoned parameters |proper_name, other_names, script, script_lang= now are unused and removed (and declared unknown). I will have the dedicated code and its category deleted (not the uknown parameters category). -DePiep (talk) 23:38, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

|native_name= should not be removed. Please strike it from the list above. – Jonesey95 (talk) 10:12, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

You're right. It was added because I worked with it. Gone now. -DePiep (talk) 11:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Complete merge?

I have cleaned the whole 1000+ pages. Is the template ready for being converted into redirect? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 05:58, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Wow, great work! Did you have a plan for Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names? – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

The are deprecated anyways, can be cleared post redirect too. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 00:32, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Redirect without finishing maintenance categories?

This template has been turned into a redirect, but there are still 900+ pages in Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with unknown parameters (21) and 136 pages in Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with multiple names (0). Those should probably be fixed before the template is redirected; the categories will slowly empty out on their own now that the template has been redirected, but the errors will still be present in the articles. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

The merge

About the merge of {{Infobox Hindu temple}} into {{Infobox religious building}}, as was concluded by this TfD (2017-03-28). I have picked up the intended merge task. If you see anything unexpected, or have a question, please post here on this page. -DePiep (talk) 21:22, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Step 1: cleanup, make good doc

First step I made was to clean up the documentation & maintenance categories, to stabilise the IST situation. By now, the documentation shows the actual template options. -DePiep (talk) 21:22, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Below, I propose #Parameter_improvement. When accepted, the new parameter names will be requested for the target infobox. Make a nicer, clean list. -DePiep (talk) 13:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I have #cleaned all multiple names. Tried to keep a useful |native_name=, remove others & abandoned parameters. Also other unknown parameters (emptied the category). Some 900 articles affected (edited). -DePiep (talk) 07:37, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Step 2: target template preparation

(later more) -DePiep (talk) 21:22, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

I recommend taking a look at what I did to merge Template:Infobox Tibetan Buddhist monastery, which is somewhat similar in that it also became a wrapper template. Clear out the maintenance category first (I cleaned up a few pages in the last few days, but as of this writing, there are 561 left to fix). Then update the sandbox to a wrapper template and make sure the testcases page has a good set of test cases that use all supported parameters. Once the sandbox rendering matches the original template as much as is reasonable (given that a merge is needed), you can move the wrapper version from the sandbox into the live template.

One difference in this case is that you might need to have new parameters added to {{Infobox religious building}}, as indicated in the TfD discussion. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:38, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Yesss. Is also why I used the "preparation" wording. I think datarows/parameters like |Pushkarani= (Temple tank, a building feature) could be added to the target template. I am preparing that request to add such Hindu data rows. The merge says: add 1500 articles to 6000 current instances. -DePiep (talk) 21:56, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Improvements before-merging are discussed & done per separate section #Parameter improvement. By now, these are done. -DePiep (talk) 16:42, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Step 3: After-merge parameter handling

Useful links:

Target template: {{Infobox religious building}} (or IBRB; btw this one does not require changes at this moment)

Wrapper template (the "old" template; we want to pass through the parameters to IBRB while keeping same parameter meanings & workings).

Template:Infobox Hindu temple(edit talk links history)

{{Infobox Hindu temple/sandbox}} (pls do not edit untalked)

{{Infobox Hindu temple/testcases}}

{{Infobox Hindu temple/doc/sandbox}} -- new documentation, prepared

Below, I have mapped all involved parameters and their fate.

Considerations

• |religious affiliation= by default is [[Hinduism]] (orange sectionheaders). Entering anything other than a Hinduism-variant would be inconsistent. See Religious affiliation and its color.

• We could consider changing IBRB: label "Tradition" to have #if:hindu Hindu denominations by color.
• Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with unknown parameters (21)
• When all this is considered stable & ok, I will propose to changeover. -DePiep (talk) 17:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Old parameters, kept

These parameters will show regularly, formatted and ordered by IBRB:

Existing parameters kept

alt architect architecture caption coordinates coordinates_footnotes country creator founded_by deity district elevation_footnotes elevation_ft elevation_m embedded established facade_direction festival festivals footnotes governing_body image image_upright inscriptions locale location map_alt map_caption map_size map_type map_relief monument_quantity name native_name native_name_lang province state temple_board temple_quantity temple_tank temple_tree tower tradition website year_completed

For |embedded=: change of usage (effect), see also NRHP set

Added related complementary parameters (available in IBRB)

elevation_ft next to _m

image_upright (image_size was removed before)

map_relief

Old parameters, removed

These parameterrs are abandoned. They are unused, insignificant, had a synonym etc. This is a cleanup, we don't want to maintain useless parameters (better: make parameters similar to those in IBRB). See also TD monthly report.

|image_alt= ununsed in the IBRB. use |alt=

|coordinates_label= ununsed, in the IBRB, not useful

|date_built= ununsed, use |year_completed= in both IBs

|date_established= ununsed, use |established= (51x), in both IBs

|pushpin_label_position= Not in IBRB. adds ~nothing, default is fine. Usage was: 6 left, 6 right, but no visible effect.

New parameters, designations like NRHP

• |embedded=yes: change into IBRB usage!

Articles affected (per TDmer): Sri Thendayuthapani Temple, Sri Mariamman Temple, Singapore: to edit after changeover.

<!-- NRHP -->
| nrhp =
| added =
| refnum =
| designated =
<!-- DESIGNATION1 -->
| embedded =
| designation1 =
| designation1_type =
| designation1_offname =
| designation1_criteria =
| designation1_date =
| delisted1_date =
| designation1_parent =
| designation1_number =
| designation1_free1value =
| designation1_free2value =
| designation1_free3value =

New parameters: easily added from IBRB

Some parameters are available in IBRB, and are not conflicting or overlapping so they can easily be added (such as |height_max=).

| organisational_status =
| organizational_status =
| functional_status     =
| architecture_style    =
| founded_by            =
| groundbreaking        =
| date_demolished       =
| length                =
| width                 =
| height_max            =
| site_area             =
| materials             =

Synonyms

There will be these synonyms:

• architecture_type = |architecture=, (both show)

(next to new, separate architecture_style)

• governing_body and temple_board: both appear as governing_body in IBRB
• elevation_ft (elevation_m takes precedence)
• festival = festivals (-s takes precedence; changes labeltext)
• founded_by = creator (founded_by takes precedence, label change. Usage IBHT: 400+0)
• locale = location (location takes precedence)
• organizational_status = organizational_status, -S- input takes precedence (no label change).
• province not state (state takes precedence)

Step 4: Sandbox live

Y Preparing. -DePiep (talk) 11:26, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

 Done. Updated documentation. Edited [1], [2] to use new embedding principle. -DePiep (talk) 12:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Parameter improvement

infobox Hindu temple parameters
Religion
Affiliation	Hinduism
Deity	deity

I propose to improve some parameter names by adding an alias (synonym) parameter.

label shown	links to	parameter	alias (new param)	example article	input
Sanctum	Garbhagriha	|deity=		Banteay Kdei	Avalokitesvara, Buddhist Temple
Direction and posture		|Direction_posture=	|direction_posture= |facade_direction=	Kalyana Venkateswara Temple, Srinivasamangapuram Pazhavangadi Ganapathy Temple	[deity:] Standing and facing east with right hand in Varada posture and left hand in Kati posture East Facing Seated posture with right leg folded
Temple tank	Pushkarani	|Pushakarani=	|temple_tank=	Rajagopalaswamy Temple, Mannargudi Agniswarar Temple, Kanjanur	Haridra Nadhi Agni Theertham, Parasara Theertham
Tower	Vimana (architectural feature) (not Gopuram=entrance tower)	|Vimanam=	|tower= |tower_height= (add tower height option)	Thiru Aadanoor Temple Thiruppaarththanpalli	Pranava Narayana
Tradition	Hindu denominations	|Tradition=	|tradition=	Baijnath Temple Kartikeya Temple, Pehowa	Hinduism (Saivism) Shaivism
Temple tree	Sthala Vriksha	|sthala_vriksha=	|temple_tree=	Pasupatheeswarar Temple, Aavoor Thirukoteeswarar Temple	Arasa Maram Pirambu

• Target template to merge into: {{Infobox religious building}}

• Hindu temple, Hindu temple architecture

The issues with the listed parameters are:

1. Using initial capital, irregular and confusing in the parameter list
2. Foreign name is not recognisable for editors, nor does it show in the labeltext (lefthand text in infobox).

The proposed name is the one shown in labeltext. The parameter will be an alias: next to the existing one (the existing name will still be supported).

I have no opinion on whether these parameters should be kept in there. Sure they are architectural features, but I could find few or no examples of actual uses. Remember, the parameter input should be something like the name (even better: [[article title]]) of such an element. Temple tanks are really named sometimes, but the other input ones rarely so. This proposal says 'keep' all, but each could be discussed wrt this. (IOW, are they weighty enough to be in the infobox?).

Comments? pinging talkpage people Vin09Ms Sarah Welch-DePiep (talk) 13:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Correct ping: @Vin09, Ms Sarah Welch, Capankajsmilyo, Agasthyathepirate, தமிழ்க்குரிசில், and Jonesey95: -DePiep (talk) 13:28, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

To be clear: I could have added those parameters boldly, no harm done. This post is just to check their weight or relevance. I am not familiar with Hindu-ism. -DePiep (talk) 19:34, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I support all of the above. We could possibly map |tradition= to |sect=. The meaning seems to be the same to me, but I could be missing a significant difference. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree with converting all the "too technical" terms to standard ones. Capankajsmilyo^{(Talk | Infobox assistance)} 00:27, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

• OK. I have decided to remove the old parameters (not keep them aside). Will research their usage. -DePiep (talk) 07:46, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

• Now that we have the occurrences listed (#Articles with these parameters, 88 pages) we can take a better look. Issues:

1. In general, ask these data entries to be added to the target template.
2. Direction_posture is actually about the deity, not facade. Ask a separate entry in target template (different from facade orientation)?
3. Vimanam is the central tower, there also is Gopuram=entrance tower, can be the big one. Also wrt height. Accept both? What to link to?

-DePiep (talk) 09:43, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@DePiep: Please consider a more careful, RS-based choice of terms. You may wish to also include plural forms. Buddhist, Hindu and Jain temples can have, the big ones do have, many "towers" (some of which are merely gates, not sanctum-related). The historic, notable temples have multiple sanctums with different icons, multiple sanctums under the same spire, many deities, and so on, designed with a particular theme according to their historic Sanskrit or regional language-based manuals. Many details such as "direction of sanctum" may be better left to the main article, as a mega-infobox is distracting and gets filled with unsourced nonsense by flyby wiki-tourists. We, as a wikipedia community, then spread misinformation with our instinctive AGF. Infobox should not become a substitute for the encyclopedic article, rather it is better if the infobox is a distilled summary of key, well-sourced information. I urge you to locate and use terms that are in the mainstream scholarly sources for those terms you decide to include. For example, the multi-volume Encyclopaedia of Indian Temple Architecture edited by Michael W. Meister is a good relatively recent RS. You may also wish to consider publications by George Mitchell, Krishna Deva, Stella Kramrisch, Madhusudan Dhaky, Vinayak Bharne, ‎Krupali Krusche, Adam Hardy and other scholars. Your initiative and efforts, DePiep, are welcome. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 13:22, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Articles with these parameters

From current Category:Pages using infobox Hindu temple with unknown parameters (21). 88 articles have input for the deprecated parameters:

| Direction_posture => facade_direction
| Pushakarani => temple_tank
| Vimanam => tower
| Tradition => tradition
| sthala_vriksha => temple_tree

I support conversion of these parameter names to the proposed lower-case, English-language parameter names. – Jonesey95 (talk) 09:48, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I will change those in the articles (~87 by now). After that, the merge is a bit simpler (no need to merge those deprecated synonyms). -DePiep (talk) 10:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

District appearing under Religion

It would seem that District should appear under Location. Gjs238 (talk) 13:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)