Template talk:Country data France

Darker variant of flag as default

The president of the country seems to have decided that the darker variant, never officially put aside, should be quietly re-introduced. Our article Flag of France seems to have followed that lead, as does the equivalent article in French wikipedia. Is it time for the templates to follow suit? I would suggest so. Kevin McE (talk) 15:12, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

The flag was changed in early 2021, the template should indeed reflect it... -MetalManiac, but not a fan of metal music (chitchat) 06:50, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

July 2020 actually.

Discussion notified at talk pages of France Portal, Heraldry and Vexililogy project, and Flag of France. Kevin McE (talk) 12:07, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

The result of the RFC regarding to the colour of the flag approves the general use of the navy blue flag (Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg) as the main flag of france. Therefore it would be appropriate to use it as the flag alias and flag icon.

→ France, → French Air and Space Force, → French Army Le Braddock (talk) 14:16, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Pings To editors Le Braddock, Kevin McE and MetalManiac:. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 12:08, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Please check the Template:Country data France/sandbox. If the edits made are correct, let me know and I'll make them in the live template. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 10:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

The changes you made are good. In addition the icons used in all the redirected aliases should also be changed. Basicaly, icons that repersent contemporary France should use Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg . However, the lighter flag should still be used as an historical flag to represent the France between 1974 and 2020 ( like said in the last section below).Le Braddock (talk) 17:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Le Braddock! Not sure what you mean by "redirected aliases". Only see one redirect listed, which is Template:Country data FRA. And redirects in these data templates are controlled by the main flag, File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg (in the sandbox). Can you be more specific? P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 23:41, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

But it is not as simple as saying that the pale blue shades are applicable 1974-2020. See, for example, this example from the Olympics held in 2021, surely one of the main flag-waving events (and Macron present). And darker tones were still widely used long after 1974 (1976 Olympics, for example). Kevin McE (talk) 13:33, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Until and unless there is agreement about changes and specific edits are requested under that consensus, then it seems unwise to go live with a data template that is used on around 185,000 pages. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 15:20, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: Sorry for the misunderstanding. I still have troubles understanding how all of this works. I saw lighter flags at the "redirected aliases" section of the sandbox an I thought they weren't affected by the change.Le Braddock (talk) 15:31, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@Kevin McE: It is complicated to prcisely date the widespread use of a symbol. Specialy in this case where the change is subtle. This is why I think it would be more appropriate to use the dates that we know about the period of use of the flag.Le Braddock (talk) 15:38, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

But we know that the dark flag was used in official, high profile event in August 1976, and the pale one in the equivalent in August 2021, so what do "we know about the period of use of the flag"? Is there anything definitive about anything that happened in 1974 or 2020? There are no official start and finish dates for the pale flag (or any security in the belief that the dark one will still be favoured in 3 months if Macron doesn't win) Kevin McE (talk) 16:00, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

The change to the pale flag was actually made in 1976 (I didn't find any prcise date) and the decision to change it back was taken the 13 july 2020. The most detailed article about this is obviously in french: https://www.europe1.fr/politique/info-e1-le-drapeau-francais-a-change-de-couleur-4076943 . The Olympics are free to use any shades of colours since a french flag can thecnically have any shades of blue and red. And If they are still using the pale flag , it is probably because it is still widespread used.Concerning Macron , he didn't came up with a brand new flag (like Gisacard did). He restored the traditional colours french flag. I don't belive that it is just Macron's narcissistic delusion. If he is not re-elected, i don't belive that he is going to take all the french flag hanging at the Élysée Palace with him. And I don't think that the first decision of the newly elected president will be to quickly change back to Giscar's flag if he or she is wiling to change it. Le Braddock (talk) 17:15, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Precisely: "it is still widespread used", and the dark version was "still widespread used" for some time after the paler one was introduced. We have no formal date of change in either direction because there was no formal mandate to change in either direction. Kevin McE (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Of course, it is still widespread used.The change was published two months ago. July 13, 2020 seems like a formal date. But alright, you convinced me. It may be better to call it "Light variant" for now.Le Braddock (talk) 12:00, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

@Paine Ellsworth: The flag alias should be changed to "Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg" since the décission to use it as the main flag of france was taken here:https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Talk:France "There is consensus that option B, the "navy blue" flag, should be generally used. There is also consensus that, when the flag itself is discussed in the article, both flags should be used. There is no consensus on how to present both flags in such articles."Le Braddock (talk) 18:50, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

I've always had good color vision, able to notice even subtle and minute differences between hues. When I place File:Flag of France.svg alongside File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg

I see no difference in the blues or the reds. It's the same flag, isn't it?

In the 1974 variant flag all three colors are lighter. So the presently used flag is no different from the one you want to use. Why change it? P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 19:14, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

We see that a new version of File:Flag of France.svg was uploaded on 20 January 2022, which is a darker version of the flag it replaced. Could that be causing some confusion? See File talk:Flag of France.svg#Protected edit request on 18 January 2022. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 19:35, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

To editors BilledMammal, ­xaosflux and Martin: for your assessments and opinions. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 20:25, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Even if it has been updated to the right colours , it apears that File:Flag of France.svg does not show the right colours when it is used as a flag template : it shows this instead of this . Furthermore, it seems like File:Flag of France.svg is a bit "unstable". For example, as I write this message,if I click on the flag, the old version of the file () is displayed . Like I previously said, I still have troubles understanding how all of this works. I don't know if it is a bug, a mishandling or just a sever update routine. Le Braddock (talk) 12:55, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

The two examples you give are the same colors. They are duplicates. The first is a redirect to File:Flag of France.svg, and if we click on the second, instead of being taken to the 1830 variant, File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1958).svg, we are taken to File:Flag of France (1794–1815, 1830–1974, 2020–present).svg! And they are duplicate flags of the same colors. I don't know what is going on, because much of this appears to be happening behind the scenes; however, at present any such changes do not appear to be needed, so this edit request cannot be granted, and I am returning the sandbox to synchronization with the live template. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 19:51, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

My mistake, I wasn't aware that we weren't seeing the same flags from the beginning. It's a bit strange. Nevertheless, thank you for your replies.Le Braddock (talk) 20:55, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Request for edit?

Hi, I was wondering if the blank white flag could replaced with the correction restoration flag here. This is the correct flag, not sure why the white flag is there, that was just the naval flag during the Kingdom. J-Man11 (talk) 06:38, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

To editor J-Man11:  done. P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 15:25, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

The old white flag was actually correct. The "Drapeau Blanc" is in France a symbol of the return of monarchy to this day and was used at the time, as shown in many paintings and texts at the time. This is even emphasized on the Bourbon Restoration in France page. Do you have any source to prove the other flag was used @Paine Ellsworth:? Otherwise it should be changed. -MetalManiacMc 18:28, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

 Undone – To editors MetalManiacMc and J-Man11: a consensus will be needed before we change from the white flag. Please build a consensus before using the {{edit template-protected}} template again. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 21:30, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit request - June 24, 2022

Can you please change the colors of the Flag of France to these RGB colors? Bleu (Blue) - rendered as RGB: 0, 38, 84 Blanc (White) - rendered as RGB: 255, 255, 255 Rouge (Red) - rendered as RGB: 206, 17, 38

Thanks. FireDragonValo (talk) 16:06, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Add Vichy as related?

I suggest adding Vichy France under related (related3 = Vichy France). —AlphaMikeOmega (talk) 17:13, 29 August 2022 (UTC)