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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:02, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

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Werner Müller (politician)

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Wernerm Müller in 2002
Wernerm Müller in 2002
  • Reviewed: to come
  • Comment: RIP

5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 13:51, 18 July 2019 (UTC).

  • This article is a five-fold expansion and is new enough and long enough. The image is suitably licensed, the hook facts are cited inline, the article is neutral and I detected no copyright or plagiarism issues. It's curious, I reviewed Eduard Müller (Austrian politician) earlier today; he was also a finance minister. A QPQ is still needed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:19, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for the review. I reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Lesser seedcracker. Dirk Müller going to come ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Returned from prep for new hook. Here is the discussion at WT:DYK:
Extended content

@Gerda Arendt, Cwmhiraeth, and Yoninah: This is more of a request for clarification, but the article doesn't seem to elaborate on the "socially acceptable way" that he reduced the coal dependence of Germany. Would it be possible for that part in the article to be expanded on? In addition, while the hook itself is okay, there do appear to be other possible hook facts that could be used as alternatives, such as the fact that he did the reduction in dependence despite being the CEO of a coal mining company himself, or that he was on the board of Borussia Dortmund. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:40, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

We could also potentially reword the current hook into something like:
ALT2 ... that Werner Müller, a former German economic and energy minister and CEO of a coal company, was praised for helping reduce the country's dependence on coal in a socially acceptable way?
Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:43, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
Sigh. "was praised" seems too pale, and the question "by whom?" will follow. He was named "Manager of the year" for it. [1] --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
"Was praised" sounds really positive though, and "by whom" can be a general statement (meaning it wasn't specific people, but in general). If you want to focus on the award, that could be rewritten to say:
ALT3 ... that Werner Müller, a former German economic and energy minister and CEO of a coal company, was awarded for helping reduce the country's dependence on coal in a socially acceptable way?
In addition, it doesn't seem that the "socially acceptable" way is elaborated on in the article. Did this refer to his good relations with companies and the people, as discussed in the Legacy section? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:59, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: @Narutolovehinata5: I think "socially acceptable" needs clarification in the article, and probably changed to different wording in the hook. I read the sources that were in English, and they used the same wording. In the United States, "socially acceptable" is something more to do with either the social standing of an individual or their family, or perhaps table manners, or personal behavior of one individual, or a lot of things. But I've never heard of it in regards to transitioning a country's fuel dependence from one type to another. I think in the United States it might be more likely to be called, "a political compromise" between opposing factions, or "educating the consumers" in a way that would take decades. — Maile (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Can you please find out what the German term would translate to, because I can't. It's not as much fuel dependence as jobs to be lost, and a way found that the people who will loose their jobs find acceptable. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:52, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Would "…without damaging the fabric of society" or "…while minimizing social and economic disruption" work? ‑ Iridescent 14:56, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
yes for me, but longish for the wanted "hookiness" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:15, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
I think that "socially acceptable way" is still acceptable wording with regards to the hook, it just needed to be elaborated on in the article. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 20:48, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
"Socially responsible" is the term you mean. Social acceptability is to do with manners, decorum and sometimes political correctness. "In Japan it isn't socially acceptable to blow one's nose in public." Here the guy was exercising social responsiblity (Sozialverantwortung / Gesellschaftsveranwortung ) by making sure the workers were looked after.Felixkrater (talk) 18:24, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah: this is in the next Prep to promote to queue. I believe that "socially acceptable" is so wrong, that I will not promote that Prep to queue. Someone else can. But I'm not going to be responsible for promoting that one. "Socially responsible" is a correct way to word it. I'm not the only admn who can promote to queue, but I can't think of any who would promote to queue knowing there is a debate on one of the hooks. — Maile (talk) 19:39, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
@Maile66: sorry, I thought this discussion was resolved. I swapped the hook with one from a later prep set. Yoninah (talk) 19:47, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Thank you. That prep set, with a different hook, has now been promoted. — Maile (talk) 20:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
  • In the meantime, it appears that the wording order of the hook was changed, so it now reads ... that Werner Müller managed a reduction in Germany's dependence on coal in a socially responsible way as Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy and CEO of major energy companies?. Does this change allay any concerns that other editors may have with the article and hook? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:27, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • The hook has been moved again to Prep 2. If this isn't resolved in the next day, I'll return it to the noms page so it can be ironed out. Yoninah (talk) 11:06, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I thought that the new wording "socially responsible" solved the problem. What did I miss? I preferred the order of first saying what positions he held, but I'm tired of discusing these minor details. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:50, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I thought so also. @Yoninah:, I'm the one who changed it in prep to match the comment by Felixkrater above, because Gerda wasn't objecting, and it looks like correct verbiage to me. I apologize for jumping the gun on making the change in Prep without notice, but Gerda does seem to be satisfied with "socially responsible", or at least she didn't object at WT:DYK. — Maile (talk) 13:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Agree, with thanks. Please also fix the article if needed. It's not my usual topic, and I am thankful for new words. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:40, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, Gerda. I have changed the article to match the wording here. @Yoninah: can we now get this nomination back in Prep? — Maile (talk) 13:47, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
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