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Template:Did you know nominations/Welcome Wagon (Veronica Mars)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 4meter4 (talk) 15:37, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

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Welcome Wagon (Veronica Mars)

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Improved to Good Article status by Johanna (talk). Self-nominated at 02:04, 20 October 2015 (UTC).

  • Passed GAN on 16 October, nominated for DYK on 20 October
  • Hook and article are within length policy
  • Hook is sourced and cited but it's to a DVD commentary so I can't check it.
  • 4 days after being nominated, a QPQ hasn't been supplied.
  • However, I think the hook itself is really unclear. It reads awkwardly because of the structure of clauses and because the song nor the remix nor the band is mentioned, it doesn't make sense. To someone who knows nothing about the subject, it makes it difficult to engage with because it's not understandable. Also, it's only a premiere when it premieres, after that it is the series opener or first episode. Altered is the wrong word, too. Changed would have sufficed. You don't even link to the song in a pipe, at least, either.
  • Nominated is under-prepared in several aspects as listed and the hook is not good enough/difficult to verify. Surely there must be an article online to support this.  — Calvin999 13:36, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
  • "4 days after being nominated, a QPQ hasn't been supplied"?? This was only nominated today. "under-prepared" nomination is not a criteria for completely rejecting this. By Reviewed it says "TBD", that means there will be a QPQ. A nominator gets time to do that. Yes, it achieved GA on October 16, in a fairly detailed review by someone who has a few review chops under his mouse. New reviewer needed, please. — Maile (talk) 00:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
    • Sorry I got a bit confused. I wasn't well yesterday. I've struck my rejection. New reviewer not needed. Hook just needs rewriting and clarifying.  — Calvin999 07:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Calvin999: I have reworded the hook and supplied the QPQ. Take another look. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 02:46, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

It's good that you've included the song and band but I still think some of my original issues are unanswered. It just feels long-winded to me and could be put much simpler.  — Calvin999 08:16, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Calvin999: I'm not really sure how to shorten it, and I'm not sure which part of it you find confusing. Could you please specify? :) Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 17:46, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
For example: ... that a remix of "We Used to Be Friends" by The Dandy Warhols was used for the third season premiere of Veronica Mars, "Welcome Wagon"?  — Calvin999 17:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
@Calvin999: That looks great. I struck the first one and put that one as ALT1 up top. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 22:43, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed for ALT1 hook, and to check DYK criteria not mentioned in the original review, such as neutrality, close paraphrasing, and so on. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:19, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
  • This is a newly promoted GA with a very thorough GA review by an experienced reviewer, but I can't really say that I find the reference for the hook fact at all satisfactory. Can you not find a third party source for the remix fact? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:13, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
@Cwmhiraeth: Unfortunately, no. However, I do not see why a third-party source is necessary per se. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 03:17, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
You have referenced it to a Wikipedia article and Wikipedia is not considered to be a reliable source, quite apart from the page not mentioning the remix on which the hook is based. In my opinion, if there is no independent source for the hook fact, you would do better to choose a completely different hook which is based on a verifiable fact that is cited to a reliable source. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:17, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@Cwmhiraeth: I can see why you would think it's cited to a Wikipedia article from the source, but it's actually a commentary on the season 3 DVD from the series creator, Rob Thomas. Johanna (formerly BenLinus1214)talk to me!see my work 16:04, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
@BlueMoonset: OK, I see what you mean, but why three wikilinks in one citation, none of which leads to the required information? I'm going to ask for another view on this. Is this an acceptable source, BlueMoonset? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:10, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
3rd party .... I agree with you @Cwmhiraeth:. This is poor practise and I have just raised it as an issue on another article. What is happening here is that the reference is given to someone else's work correctly (e.g. Rob Thomas's DVD commentary Veronica Mars: The Complete Third Season) but then the url is not assigned correctly but directed to another wiki article (in this case a Wiki article). This is interfering with what the reader wants. They click to find the source and to see the work done by Rob Thomas but they are redirected back to Wikipedia (annoying on other sites and here). If we have no url then we should just leave it blank. This re-direction interferes with the reader's intention and our requirement to fully attribute. I suspect this needs escalation as it appears to be acceptable in GA articles. I have removed it on the hook ref in this article. (Oddly Series 3 in mentioned at the top of the infobox and not linked when that might be what the reader expected??)Victuallers (talk) 10:34, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you Victuallers. With the citation changes I can AGF the hook fact and this nomination can go forward. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:43, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
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