Template:Did you know nominations/Van Tran Flat Bridge

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 15:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Van Tran Flat Bridge

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... ~~that the Van Tran Flat Bridge is the oldest standing covered bridge in Sullivan County, New York?~~ Source: https://www.nycoveredbridges.org/van-tran-flat/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Beck–Fahrner syndrome

Improved to Good Article status by Etriusus (talk). Self-nominated at 20:49, 21 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Van Tran Flat Bridge; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Book ref for the hook lacks page numbers. Gatoclass (talk) 13:05, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: I don't follow. The source for the hook isn't a book ref. Unless you're referring to the New York State's Covered Bridges source, which I've added. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 00:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, most of the sources state that this is the oldest covered bridge "still standing" in Sullivan County, which implies there may be some covered bridges that still exist but are no longer standing. So perhaps you should add that phrase to the hook and article. Gatoclass (talk) 10:54, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass:, does that suffice? 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 18:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Not quite, but I've added the phrase "still standing" to the article for clarity. However, I'm a little concerned that some text in the article may violate WP:CLOP as it has similarities with the New York State Covered Bridge Society article - although that website doesn't appear to have any copyright notice. Nikkimaria, would you like to venture an opinion? Gatoclass (talk) 04:53, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

In the absence of a copyright notice we have to assume the work is copyrighted, and I would agree some restructuring would be beneficial. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass:, I redid a handful of sentences that struck out to me as close paraphrasing of the source. The Associated Locations and History sections were the biggest offenders in my opinion. I changed an additional sentence that didn't quite meet criteria just out of an abundance of caution. I went line by line and hopefully got them all. If there are any more, please let me know. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 21:47, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Have your concerns been resolved? If so, are you able to provide a full review and get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

No it hasn't. The offending paragraph is the one that starts Sometime after 1958, concrete refacing of the dry-laid stone abutments occurred. Normally at this stage I would just massage the text a bit myself and ask for another reviewer, but unfortunately I am very busy off-wiki right now and don't have the time. Maybe by the middle of next week I will be able to come back and take another look. Gatoclass (talk) 02:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass:, I've made some additional changes. That being said, many of these sentences are simple phrases that are difficult to rephrase, and are starting to hit WP:LIMITED or would require breaking MOS to resolve. Please let me know if there are any additional issues. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 01:23, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

This is not a review of the nomination, but the hook is kinda on the meh side of things (being the oldest in a US county is neat I guess but unless it's a really famous county it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things). Perhaps other proposals can be made here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

It's an obscure little bridge, you are not going to get a Ripley's Believe It Or Not-quality hook out of it. Gatoclass (talk) 11:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: All right. I've massaged the text a little more but there are clearly limits on what can be done here short of just dropping content. Gatoclass (talk) 11:11, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass and Etriusus: I also have WP:DYKINT concerns, like NLH5 above. "The oldest standing covered bridge in Sullivan County, New York" feels somewhat like we've reached the end of a certain Monty Python skit with the number of modifiers. With the view of "anything is unique if you define it enough", I won't be promoting this hook, but as that criterion is subjective I'll let other promoters weigh in as well. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Alright, how about we try ALT1: ... ~~that the Van Tran Flat Bridge was abandoned in 1972, but subsequently restored 12 years later?~~ Source:https://www.nycoveredbridges.org/van-tran-flat/
Or Alt2: ... that the Van Tran Flat Bridge was restored in 1984 using original construction techniques from the 1860s? same source as Alt1

@AirshipJungleman29: I agree with Gatoclass that we aren't going to get an earth shattering fun fact from this article, that doesn't mean it can't be DKY worthy. Hopefully, one of these suffices. 🏵️Etrius ( Us) 15:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

I think ALT2 has promise. Gatoclass can you review? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Works for me. ALT2 verified. Gatoclass (talk) 05:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)