Template:Did you know nominations/Thekla M. Bernays
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by BlueMoonset (talk) 07:14, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Withdrawn per note by nominator below
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Thekla M. Bernays
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- ... that Thekla M. Bernays, author and lecturer, owned the The Adoration of the Shepherds by Francesco Bassano the Younger, now at the North Carolina Museum of Art? Source: Catalogue of paintings - University of Toronto ([1])
- ALT1:... that ...? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)
Created by Elisa.rolle (talk). Self-nominated at 12:38, 18 August 2017 (UTC).
Article is long enough, new enough cited (a reference or two more in the second-to-last paragraph would be good), no sign of copyvio, hook is accurate and reasonably interesting, QPQ is done. Smurrayinchester 15:27, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
- I know that Christmas is three months away, but this nomination with its image would be good for use in a Christmas set. @Elisa.rolle: Would you object to it being retained till then? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:21, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth: not an issue if in the end it goes up on DYK with the image ;-) Elisa.rolle (talk) 09:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- Just saying, it's a pretty weak connection, & there's nothing hardly about the painting in the article - we normally have 1/2 actual articles on Christmas art. Johnbod (talk) 00:36, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I came by to promote this, but I also think the hook is weak. It would be more interesting to talk about her achievements. I added a "citation needed" tag under Legacy. I also placed a notice on the talk page asking about the purpose and sourcing of the Lineage section. Yoninah (talk) 23:22, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- In no mood of writing DYKs, as before, you can withdraw this one. Elisa.rolle (talk) 23:26, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Elisa.rolle: Well, the article is on Wikipedia. What would you like to do about the Legacy section? Yoninah (talk) 23:29, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- replied in the talk page, it gives the cultural contest of the main subjects, given the tight bond she maintained with her European relatives and the fact she lived in a St Louis's compound where all Bernays lived. Elisa.rolle (talk) 23:36, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Elisa.rolle: yes, I just saw your note on the talk page. But you don't say any of that in the article. You just give a list. And none of the cites connect these people directly to Thekla. I think you should write an article about the father and move this list there. Yoninah (talk) 23:38, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- in a previous edit, you, in good faith, removed the reference to Clemens and Jacob Gera Bernays, I readded it (twice) for clarity. Elisa.rolle (talk) 23:45, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- replied in the talk page, it gives the cultural contest of the main subjects, given the tight bond she maintained with her European relatives and the fact she lived in a St Louis's compound where all Bernays lived. Elisa.rolle (talk) 23:36, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Elisa.rolle: Well, the article is on Wikipedia. What would you like to do about the Legacy section? Yoninah (talk) 23:29, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Just saying, it's a pretty weak connection, & there's nothing hardly about the painting in the article - we normally have 1/2 actual articles on Christmas art. Johnbod (talk) 00:36, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
- Cwmhiraeth: not an issue if in the end it goes up on DYK with the image ;-) Elisa.rolle (talk) 09:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
- I know that Christmas is three months away, but this nomination with its image would be good for use in a Christmas set. @Elisa.rolle: Would you object to it being retained till then? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:21, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
There is zero evidence that the work by Bernays is the work in North Carolina. In fact, the two paintings discussed in the Bernays article are actually just one, as is clear from the Toronto description. This work has been re-attributed from Francesco to Leandro Bassano, and sold at Sothebys. I have no idea where the North Carolina painting originated, but it doesn't match the Toronto description at all and the museum website[2] gives no indication of a Bernays provenance. Many artists painted multiple versions of the same subject (the Bassanos probably even more than many other artists), and many works of art have been reattributed over the years, usually from some master to some lesser-known artist or to a "follower of" work. Fram (talk) 15:20, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Where is "the Toronto description"? It ought to be on page 11 of the book, no?, but isn't. No page given in the ref, which is poor with a 256 page source! Johnbod (talk) 15:55, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- It is at page 153. I have no idea how the 1915 catalogue of Toronto was supposed to prove that the painting was in another collection which only opened in 1956 anyway (or how two people here at least then supposedly checked the hook and accepted this!). Fram (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Alex Shih: Should be already withdrawn, but if further confirmation is needed, I withdraw this DYK. Explanation is accepted, article has already been adjusted by reviewer. Elisa.rolle (talk) 18:49, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- It is at page 153. I have no idea how the 1915 catalogue of Toronto was supposed to prove that the painting was in another collection which only opened in 1956 anyway (or how two people here at least then supposedly checked the hook and accepted this!). Fram (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
- Where is "the Toronto description"? It ought to be on page 11 of the book, no?, but isn't. No page given in the ref, which is poor with a 256 page source! Johnbod (talk) 15:55, 25 September 2017 (UTC)