Template:Did you know nominations/The Hippodrome, Aldershot
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
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The Hippodrome, Aldershot
[edit]- ... that the actor James Mason made his stage debut at the now-demolished The Hippodrome theatre in Aldershot in 1931?
- ALT1:that actor James Mason made his stage debut playing Prince Felix Yusupov in Rasputin the Rascal Monk at The Hippodrome in Aldershot in 1931?
Created/expanded by Jack1956 (talk). Self nominated at 15:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC).
- QPQ: Reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Clifford Street
New enough. Long enough. NPOV. Article well-cited. One of the sources (Glasgow Herald) for the hook gives 1935, not 1931. QPQ done. Using Dup detector, there are some copyvio/close paraphrasing issues: "John Warren, Chas Karnac & Co, The Four Debutants, Sisters Jerome, Tom Westwall, J.H Wakefield, Duncan & Godfrey, Chas Kitts and Rhoda Windrum" , "designed by the well known theatre architect Bertie Crewe", "Joe Loss and his orchestra, Primo Scala and His", "February 1913 with a twice nightly variety show" are all identical to the text in http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/AldershotTheatres/AldershotHippodrome.htm. Edwardx (talk) 20:46, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
- Most of what you quote are lists which I can rearrange but they are still going to be a list. I don't think anyone can copyright a list. The rest I have rewritten. The Glasgow Herald is wrong in stating 1935 as Mason's career was established by then but is right in stating his debut was at The Hippodrome, which is why I need it as a source. Jack1956 (talk) 20:51, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks. Even if not a copyright issue, the lists still are a close paraphrasing issue, and need to be reordered. Using Dup detector on another source, Cinema Treasures, we get several other close paraphrasing issues, with these all being identical with the article: "in the orchestra stalls 258 in the dress circle 272 in the balcony and", "dressing rooms by march 1914 kinemacolour films were being screened", "florrie ford gracie fields harry champion ella shields tommy fields", and "arthur lucan as old mother riley with kitty mcshane". As we have one source stating 1931 and another 1935, I think we need a second source stating 1931. Edwardx (talk) 21:18, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, but all the sources for this hook contradict one another, I think a new hook will have to be found. Gatoclass (talk) 14:30, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- I think ALT2 "...that actor James Mason made his stage debut in Rasputin the Rascal Monk at The Hippodrome in Aldershot in 1931?" would be fine. The Glasgow Herald claim that he played Rasputin is probably just sloppy reporting, but this hook hedges it by not mentioning the role, and there are no other contradictions. Belle (talk) 14:49, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- (edit conflict)I had verified the hook myself through one of the sources, but GC is right -- another (Glasgow Herald) gets the year wrong (and maybe he saw other problems). According to my personal standard -- that articles inevitably are imperfect but hooks must be ironclad because they are displayed on MP -- pulling was therefore justified. What, then, to do? Well, in this case we need to explicitly acknowledge the conflict of sources and resolve it. I'm afraid we need the nominator back for this. Jack1956, I summon thee! This is really an article, not DYK, issue, so maybe that discussion should go on the article talk, and come back here when done. To make things more complicated, the issues is less about Hippodrome than about about Mason, so maybe Talk:James Mason is the right venue. I'm tired now. EEng (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- [Added PS] I agree that GH can just be discounted, but I'm afraid it's worse than that, since the full-length bio gives the title as simply The Rascal. Now I'm really tired. EEng (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- [Added PPS] What GC said. EEng (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
If y'all encourage me, I'll come up with a new hook on the theme of
- Peter Sellers appeared there in February 1948 as a drummer and was billed as "Britain's answer to Gene Krupa".[9] Sellers later described his appearance at the theatre: "I had a crushing defeat in Variety in Aldershot — a terrible thing it was". His complaint was that the band accompanying him were four bars behind as they were eating their sandwiches while they were playing
EEng (talk) 15:27, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- I'm sorry everybody - I didn't realise this was going to cause so many problems. How about something like:
- ALT3 ...that Peter Sellers complained that the band accompanying his drum act at the The Hippodrome in Aldershot were four bars behind as they were eating their sandwiches while playing? Jack1956 (talk) 19:50, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
- I fixed beats-->bars in ALT3, per the source (though I wonder if beats wasn't what was really meant...). How about
- ALT3A ...that Peter Sellers, billed as "Britain's answer to Gene Krupa" at the The Aldershot Hippodrome in 1948, complained later that the band was four bars behind because they were eating sandwiches?
- EEng (talk) 14:35, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
- I fixed beats-->bars in ALT3, per the source (though I wonder if beats wasn't what was really meant...). How about