Template:Did you know nominations/The Color of Law

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 14:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

The Color of Law

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• ... that Richard Rothstein's 2017 book The Color of Law exposes policies of racial segregation in nearly all United States presidential administrations stretching back to the late 1800s, including FDR's? Source: "Going back to the late 19th century, he uncovers a policy of de jure segregation in virtually every presidential administration, including those we normally describe as liberal on domestic issues... Indeed, some of the worst offenses occurred with Franklin Roosevelt in the White House." (NYT Review)

• ALT1: ... that Richard Rothstein's 2017 book The Color of Law exposes policies of racial segregation in nearly all United States presidential administrations stretching back to the late 1800s? Source: ibid
• ALT2: ... that, according to Richard Rothstein's 2017 book The Color of Law, some of the worst policies of racial segregation in the last 100 years came from the administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt? Source: ibid
• Reviewed: Exempt from reviews with two credits, one pending (in prep), and one other not yet reviewed (this is my fifth total nomination)
• Comment: I expanded 5x 14 November 2020, Czar created article first as a redirect and then as a stub in early to mid June 2020. I am quick to respond and am willing to provide more alternatives as requested, any comments on article improvement are most welcome as well.

Created/expanded by Footlessmouse (talk) and Czar (talk). Nominated by Footlessmouse (talk) at 12:09, 14 November 2020 (UTC).

Interesting book, on great sources, no copyvio obvious. I like the hooks, especially ALTl, because why mention FDR - don't expect our broad international readership to associate anything with the abbreviation. I'd also word the hook to mention the book first, and then the author, unless you want to collect clicks for the author. Please place ALTs below this comment, - don't change the above. - How about the pic of the author here? - A few suggestions for the fine detailed article:

1. add a few words on the author's background
2. get his image up a bit
3. simplify the table to just a numbered list (such as the one I'm just writing) unless you want to add to add more columns
4. reduce the audios, or present them differently, to not interfere with the refs
5. I think the lead is a bit heavy on ranking, and short on theme
6. if you want to pick on FDR, have a bit more on him than the one mentioning in the lead

I think this has WP:GA potential, what do you think? Best --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt, thank you for your review, I will work on it now. Some notes first. I most certainly plan on improving it to GA over the next couple of months. I'll break down the table for now, but will probably add it back later once I'm able to fill out the content section. I'm a big fan of floating the table to the right to supplement the prose rather than have it be a focus of the section. I'll move external media to external links section and trim. Also, I don't care about FDR, it was just mentioned explicitly by the source I was using and thought it added a little to it, but I agree that it is better to leave off given our international audience. I'll start work on the rest of it now.

@Gerda Arendt: I have touched upon each of your points, and while it needs a bunch more work before it is GA ready, I think it may be DYK ready. There are tons of sources and should be straight-forward to bring up to GA status, but it will be a project requiring a whole lot of reading. (Also, I didn't mean to sound like I own the article, everyone is encouraged to participate in bringing it up to GA quality!) Please let me know if you would like me to work on anything else before it's good to go. I am including the picture here as well, though I'm not sure if it's nice enough to warrant being featured on the main page. Here is the new alt, it's even shorter rearranging like this and works well, I think:

• ALT3: ... that The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein (pictured) exposes policies of racial segregation in nearly all United States presidential administrations stretching back to the late 1800s? Source: ibid

  subscription sources accepted AGF. We are not told in the hook that it is a book, nor when written, but it's both not needed to be attractive. The image is licensed and shows well in small. GRuban, what do think about a slight crop of the image, actually for all purposes? Unless we want an abundance of black? - Footlessmouse, I didn't get a ping because you didn't sign, - just a general hint, any ping needs a new signature, DYK? Good luck for going further with this article and at all. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

How about an image that is slightly brighter and where his head isn't tilted to one side? --GRuban (talk) 19:22, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer! Up to Footlessmouse, because the pic would also have to be in the article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:25, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Than you both. So from as far as I can tell, the video this pic is extracted from is our only source of pictures of him that have appropriate copyright for DYK and for Commons. That being said, I will watch the video again and see if I can find a better shot in there somewhere. We can also write to the Economic Policy Institute officially requesting permission to use his portrait on commons (and DYK). The problem with that route is that I would not expect it to resolve any time soon. My bad on forgetting to sign above! Footlessmouse (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Just try, I'd say, and if it comes to late we still have the others. For the moment, the upper pic is approved, as in the article. but the other is licensed as well, so without needing me again, that can also be taken if in the article. - I'd not mention a forgotten signature - I do it all the time - but because of the ping. Some change a name to a ping and are so surprised the recipient never gets notified, - it works only with a fresh signature. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Note for closer The lower picture is now in the article and has replaced the upper picture where Rothstein's head is tilted, I believe it is a better picture. Thanks all!