Template:Did you know nominations/Petite messe solennelle

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Montanabw^(talk) 04:19, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Petite messe solennelle

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Gioachino Rossini in 1985

• ... that Rossini (pictured) scored his Petite messe solennelle, which he called his last sin of old age, for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium?

• Reviewed: Grönsö Manor
• Comment: a featured picture, - the scoring is the only thing petite about this mass, which lasts for over an hour and is "damned" good music, which would make another hook but would be difficult to explain in 200 chars, - suggestions welcome

Improved to Good Article status by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 13:11, 3 June 2016 (UTC).

• The article looks good, has been recently promoted to GA, and QPQ requirements have been fulfilled. However, my issue is the part of the hook which says "which he called his last sin of old age". This is potentially confusing, and should include quotation marks or at least link to Péchés de vieillesse. I'm also wondering why the word "sin" isn't plural like it is in the article. As it stands, it reads like the score is what he considers his last sin. FallingGravity (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
• Also another note, comparing this article to another website shows a 49.7% confidence, though the "plagiarized" text is mostly quotations, but some of it could be close paraphrasing and I don't think the GA review covered that. FallingGravity (talk) 18:28, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for looking. It would be surprising if the Hyperion Records was "copied" because I used it much less than some others. I see mostly phrases which appear in the Latin text parts, or in quotes, or are short. Willing to paraphrase if you show me items of concern. - I will think about an alternative hook, - many possibilities - but am too tired now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:58, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

In the original hook, I would not want to link to the collection, because we'd loose the interesting double meaning. The request to the pope to permit female singers at church would be worth mentioning, but is too complicated for me to do it.

ALT1: ... that women were the first soloists of the Petite messe solennelle by Rossini (pictured), both in the version for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium in 1864 as in the version with orchestra after the composer's death? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:08, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

This hook is a bit long and I've attempted to trim it down though I currently count 211 characters.

ALT2: ... that women were the first soloists of the Petite messe solennelle by Rossini (pictured), both in the version for 12 singers, 2 pianos and harmonium, and in the orchestra version made after the composer's death? I tweaked the original hook to include quotation marks.

ALT3: ... that Rossini (pictured) scored his Petite messe solennelle, which he called the last of his "sins of old age", for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium?

As for the close paraphrasing, I found that, much as I suspected, most of the duplications are from quoting the same material. I've done a little copy-editing to hopefully clear some of this up. FallingGravity (talk) 21:50, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, but forgive me for restoring my hooks and adding your different ones as ALTs. (Generally: don't change things which have been commented, please.) "last sins" sounds wrong, no? - "made after the composer's death" is simply misleading, - the composer "made" the version himself, but didn't permit a performance until after his death. We could drop that bit, of course. Reading again, not all soloists were women:

ALT4: ... that women were soloists in the Petite messe solennelle by Rossini (pictured), both in the first version for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium, as in the later version with orchestra? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

I've tweaked my own ALT3 a bit. FallingGravity (talk) 22:41, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

That's no problem, but I think we need another reviewer to look at all these hooks and choose the best one. FallingGravity (talk) 22:35, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

As you like it, I struck one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:51, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

I would be happy to tick ALT4, yet I think there is some room to reduce the size of ALT 3 to : ... that Rossini (pictured) scored his Petite messe solennelle, which he called the last of his "sins of old age", for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium? to the same message across. I also find the fact it couldnt be performed in the church until after his death due to female singers not being permitted Gnangarra 07:43, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for looking, your reduction is fine, how about this:

ALT5: ... that Rossini (pictured) scored the last of his "sins of old age", the Petite messe solennelle, for twelve singers, two pianos and harmonium? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

• for ALT5 Gnangarra 09:59, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

• Promoter's comment: Promoted, adding a wikilink for Rossini. Montanabw^(talk) 04:19, 26 June 2016 (UTC)