Template:Did you know nominations/Oak Hill Industrial Academy
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 12:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
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Oak Hill Industrial Academy
[edit]- ... that Oak Hill Industrial Academy was a school in Indian Territory for Choctaw freedmen's children?
- Comment: February is African American History Month. Article speaks to a little known era of African American heritage.
Created by SusunW (talk). Self nominated at 18:33, 9 February 2015 (UTC).
New (8th), long enough, neutral, no copyvio found via spot check (though I had some issues of failed verification in the Flickinger), no QPQ necessary yet. Alumni section is uncited. There may also be issues with the school's notability (does it have dedicated sourcing apart from the book?) but that's outside the DYK purview. Hook doesn't have an immediate ref in article (see 3b). Please ping me if I don't respond. czar ⨹ 01:24, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review! @Czar: I will try to address your comments in order: 1) Not sure what you are referencing with failed verification in Flickinger, please advise and I will correct it. 2) Added page citations to the alumni. As of yet, have not had time to research them further. 3) School is one of the very few freedmen schools that existed in Indian Territory. Since Indian Freedmen situation is fairly unique, there were never many of these schools and few outside of Oklahoma/Indian Territory. As far as my research has shown, it may well be the ONLY one of these schools that offered high school education. There was one college and it was the only college before Langston opened. I have no access to Department of Interior or Presbyterian Mission Board records (I am not in the US), but searches of both databases indicate there is hard copy information available from those sources. It is also listed in several state guidebooks and has a state-erected historical marker. 4) I have changed the reference for in-line citation #18 with the official title of the sub-section of Presbyterian Missions Board "for Freedmen" that was responsible for building this school. The citation on page 103 of Flickinger confirms that it was a Freedman's school and the opening flyleaf for the book confirms the sub-section. If I need to provide other clarifications or information, please advise. Again, I appreciate the input. SusunW (talk) 03:12, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Comment - @SusunW:, if you need access to sources within the USA and can't get them from an international computer, ping me with what you are looking for, i can get to JSTOR and such via my University account. Montanabw(talk) 18:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- "Comment': @Czar:; I think footnote 13 sources the hook. As to notability, I'm part of WP Indigenous people of North America, and I'm comfortable that this article is fine; these old historic Indian boarding schools often have mostly offline research sources. Montanabw(talk) 18:29, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks @Montanabw:. I work in obscure areas, history of minorities, so for me, this was a HUGE amount of information to find. These Native American boarding schools are difficult to search, but freedman schools, even harder ... double minority, in the south, in a frontier area. Oklahoma is also unique among the states because a great majority of the information on the state is in federal and not state archives. I was actually really pleased that I found multiple outside references to back up Flickinger, i.e. Department of the Interior report, Presby church archives, and even a state educational report. As for one of the alumni, the doctor, I have verified him with at least 6 outside sources. Don't know if I'll find enough for an article, but an important find. He may well be the first black, or first Muskogee Nation physician after statehood. Those things excite me. Pulling little snippets out of the past that enrich the entire history. Also appreciate your offer of access to sources. Much appreciated. :) SusunW (talk) 21:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Have my hands full at the moment, but I wanted to acknowledge that I saw your reply (thank you) and say that I'll take a look at this over the weekend, if that's okay czar ⨹ 11:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Czar: When you can, you can. Not to worry. Real life always takes precedence. SusunW (talk) 14:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
- @SusunW, looks good—good work! I only brought up the notability as a potential concern, not something I'm after. What matters is not its novelty but whether it was the subject of multiple, reliable, secondary sources. Not to be a nuisance, but 3b says that every fact in the hook needs to be said directly in the article text and have their own direct citations. Can you directly cite one of the mentions that it is in Indian Territory? czar ⨹ 03:21, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Czar: When you can, you can. Not to worry. Real life always takes precedence. SusunW (talk) 14:27, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
- Have my hands full at the moment, but I wanted to acknowledge that I saw your reply (thank you) and say that I'll take a look at this over the weekend, if that's okay czar ⨹ 11:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks @Montanabw:. I work in obscure areas, history of minorities, so for me, this was a HUGE amount of information to find. These Native American boarding schools are difficult to search, but freedman schools, even harder ... double minority, in the south, in a frontier area. Oklahoma is also unique among the states because a great majority of the information on the state is in federal and not state archives. I was actually really pleased that I found multiple outside references to back up Flickinger, i.e. Department of the Interior report, Presby church archives, and even a state educational report. As for one of the alumni, the doctor, I have verified him with at least 6 outside sources. Don't know if I'll find enough for an article, but an important find. He may well be the first black, or first Muskogee Nation physician after statehood. Those things excite me. Pulling little snippets out of the past that enrich the entire history. Also appreciate your offer of access to sources. Much appreciated. :) SusunW (talk) 21:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- @Czar: Flickinger (1914), pp 220-221 (citation #2 in the article) states that Oak Hill was in the Choctaw Nation, it states Indians were located in Indian Territory, and it states that statehood was established in 1907. I don't think I am going to find a source that is clearer than that or that specifically states Oak Hill was in the Indian Territory. Currently the Choctaw Nation is thought of as the tribe, but prior to Oklahoma statehood in 1907 it was a geographical district over which the tribe had jurisdiction in Indian Territory. I would assume like the statement "the capital of France is Paris" WP:SYNTH because of the time frame it is self-evident. Maybe DYK rules are more stringent than Wikipedia on this? I am a relatively new editor on Wikipedia and freely admit I have no idea how most of the rules work. ;) SusunW (talk) 14:14, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
that works. The idea is just to make the hook's facts as easy to verify as possible when the article runs on the front page. Looking forward to your future work. czar ⨹ 14:20, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
