Template:Did you know nominations/Noah's wine

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Gatoclass (talk) 15:47, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Noah's wine

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~~... that Noah's wine is a biblical allusion to an alcoholic beverage?~~

Created by Godsy (talk). Self-nominated at 08:52, 6 August 2015 (UTC).

Age, copyvio, plagiarism, neutrality all check out; no QPQ necessary; cited throughout; hook is fine (even if it is not particularly surprising that wine refers to an alcoholic drink). Unfortunately once the quotes are excluded this isn't long enough (just under 1200 characters when it needs to be 1500). Belle (talk) 09:01, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

@Belle: I've expanded it a bit, is that long enough? My DYK Check tool had it at the appropriate length before, but it was counting some of the quotes, which you've pointed out is perhaps inappropriate.—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 10:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it is long enough now, but I'm concerned about the appropriateness of some of the additions, which give Noah unequivocal credit for inventing wine and then drift off into a discussion of the spread of brewing; you really should be concentrating on the use of the term and not Noah or alcoholic drinks in general (this review has made me fancy a glass though I'm hoping not collapse naked afterward). Belle (talk) 11:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

@Belle: I changed the wording a bit to make it a bit more neutral and perhaps relay more clearly that it's the assumption based on the story and the source. Will that do for the DYK?, or would you like me to scrap it and add different info? (I had a beer earlier: though I suppose I'd prefer not to collapse after a singular beer, I'd be alright with it as long as it happened inside my house, and not outside or at another misc. location )—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 11:15, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

I think that is drifting a bit from the article subject; there is more detail on Noah's drunkenness and Satan's role in it in Jewish texts: Noah_in_rabbinic_literature#His_lapse which I might let you get away with adding (depends how many wines I've had and how busy I am drunkenly looking for my clothes when I come back to this). Belle (talk) 13:21, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Added a summary of that info, and a link in the See also section.—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 22:59, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Go on then; the world's not going to end for the sake of a few characters the wrong side of a quote mark. Good to go per my earlier review. Belle (talk) 00:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about this ALT?
ALT1: ... that people generally prefer Noah's wine to Adam's ale? Yoninah (talk) 22:55, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I think that is much better; if Godsy wants to strike the original I'll say this is good to go with Yoninah's ALT1. Belle (talk) 01:24, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Yoninah and Belle:I can't back that up with a source, I could probably find statistics somewhere about something along those lines, but that wouldn't really fit in the article.

~~How about ALT2: ... that Noah's wine is biblically considered the discovery of fermentation which led to the advent of alchoholic beverages?~~

or something along those lines (which is sourced in the article).—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 05:21, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Godsy, ALT1 is supported by the Dietetic and Hygienic Gazette quote. Belle (talk) 07:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Belle: I'm not quite comfortable with the wording based on that quote, it's kind of taking the statement out of context (I didn't even think of the quote being the source of the statement before, thanks for pointing that out). I'd be alright with "... one of the defining characteristics of man has been described as the preference of Noah's wine over Adam's ale." or something along those lines.—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 22:15, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

@Yoninah:, sorry to summon you, but can you rephrase your ALT1 slightly to address Godsy's concerns, so I can retick it; I think it is the use of the blanket "people generally prefer" rather than something like "it has been suggested...etc" that is the problem; I was quite happy with it but I'm a well-known slacker. Belle (talk) 23:24, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that it has been said that man prefers Noah's wine to Adam's ale? Yoninah (talk) 23:54, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Per my earlier review; good to go with ALT3. Belle (talk) 00:26, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks all. ALT3 looks good.—Godsy^(TALK_CONT) 01:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)