Template:Did you know nominations/Mawali (tribe)
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Mawali (tribe)
Mawali tribal sheikhs, 1880s
- ... that the Mawali tribe (pictured) dominated the Syrian steppe until the 18th century, when they were driven out to the Hama and Idlib regions, where their descendants remain to the present day?
- Source: *Douwes, Dick (2000). The Ottomans in Syria: A History of Justice and Oppression, pp. 27, 31-32
- Dukhan, Haian (2019). State and Tribes in Syria: Informal Alliances and Conflict Patterns, p. 12
** Comment: QPQ Pending
Moved to mainspace by Al Ameer son (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 178 past nominations.
Al Ameer (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: I uploaded a derivative version of the image with a bit more detail. It's not great, but when you compare it with the original, you can make out more of the scene, the details of their faces and clothing, and you can clearly see the hand on the sword ready to strike the photographer, whereas in the original it is somewhat blurry. Like I said, not great, and one would have to spend a lot of time on it to get the lights and darks just right. I just ran a filter on it for detail, WB, and cropped. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Thank you for improving the image quality, it's a striking photo. I replaced it in the nomination—hopefully, it gets used in the Main Page. Al Ameer (talk) 03:37, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Al Ameer son: Any chance you can also add a regional, geographic map of your choosing to the "Location" section? It would fit well there and would give readers an idea of where in the world you are talking about. Viriditas (talk) 09:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- I went back to the original and adjusted the black, midtone, and white. I think it's better than the other version I made, because there were too many artifacts introduced by the filter. Viriditas (talk) 11:08, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Al Ameer son: Is it presumptive to assume the image of the Mawali tribal sheikhs was taken in the ruins of Serjilla? I think it seems obvious, but perhaps I'm wrong? If so, maybe we could add this image as well? Also, a map would be nice. Viriditas (talk) 21:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: @Al Ameer son: Still need 2 QPQs. I tend to find that it helps to do the QPQs in advance, before you make the nomination. Viriditas (talk) 22:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Al Ameer son: Please provide the needed two QPQs, as the nomination may be closed without further warning if they are not given promptly. The nomination has been open for four days already without a QPQ given, so they should be done as soon as possible (they should have actually been done at the time of the nomination). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:10, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: QPQ's both done. Al Ameer (talk) 03:37, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment: Trying to figure out a way to go shorter with this hook: "... that the Mawali tribe (pictured) controlled the Syrian steppe until the 18th century, before being driven out to the Hama and Idlib regions, where their descendants remain today?" Feel free to propose further trims. Al Ameer (talk) 02:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- How about: ALT1: "... that in the 18th century the Mawali tribe (pictured) was driven from the Syrian steppe to the regions of Hama and Idlib, where their descendants live today?"
- @Al Ameer son: I realize classifications can be confusing and arbitrary, but this source indicates the Mawali tribe was classified as nomadic by the French, not semi-nomadic. Not sure if that changes much, as you are probably using a more accurate category than the French were, which appears to have been used for political purposes.
- The lead says the tribe is "mainly in the regions of Idlib and Hama", but the "Location" section doesn't mention Hama. Check to see if this is an error or if you need to add material to the location section.
- You've got a typo in the first reference "Dukhan 2019, p. 1878". There's only 182 pages in the book.
- Viriditas Thank you for that source—I will definitely start incorporating it into the article. The Mawali, even in the early days of its history, in the 16th century, comprised a diverse grouping of tribes of different origins and ways of life. Some, like its leading clans, were fully nomadic camel-raisers, others were sheepherders who were only seasonally nomadic, and others were fully sown to the land. By the time the French came, the Mawali had long been a mainly sheepherding tribe, though many of its tribesmen were not nomadic at all and had become farmers by that point. None of its constituent tribes appear to have stayed as strict camel-raising nomads—mainly the various Anaza tribes and the Shammar. For many decades now, of course, the tribe has lived a settled existence.
- Hama is mentioned in the second sentence of the Location section.
- Yes, I see that; the page numbers are by Google Books, but it looks like it's and ebook and the actual pages are not numbered. I removed it. Al Ameer (talk) 02:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have access to the pages from the print book. I will try to add them later. I also added the images as placeholders. You don’t have to keep them. Feel free to replace them with better images that you prefer. I just think it helps the layout and gives the reader some insight into the land and culture. One thing, I was surprised that there was no information about their personal lives, diets, cultural practices, etc. What are they like in comparison to other Bedouin, etc. I was reading something earlier about another tribe that was interesting. It said their traditional diet depended heavily on milk and little meat, but I assume that was a long time ago, not in the modern era. Viriditas (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
- I forgot to mention a possible image idea. We are told the Mawali protected or guarded trade routes and exacted tolls. It would be instructive to show an image of these trade routes, as I wondered, were these the same, ancient Levantine trade routes, Silk Road routes, or something else? I was unable to find an answer, but commons has those two respective images available to use. Viriditas (talk) 05:18, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Moved to mainspace, length is good, no problems detected on Earwig. Spot checks complete, page numbers added, hook is cited and interesting. ALT0 and ALT1 good to go. I made an attempt to clear up the image, but I'm not sure if it's an improvement. There are now three images to choose from, but I may give it another go to see if I can make it more clear. I also added images to the current article based on already existing text, more so as a placeholder for the nominator in the event they want to add their own images. They are more than welcome to delete these images. I also added a location map based on the location section. This is a really interesting subject, and I note that Douwes 2000 has a bit more detail about the history and Dukhan 2019 has more about their work in the FSA. If the nominator wants me to send them a full copy of Dukhan 2019, simply send me an email. Otherwise, this is a most impressive article. The only criticism I have is that it is a touch too clinical; it could benefit from more of the human touch, perhaps some anecdotes about the tribe featuring insider information only a member would know. I did see more in the above sources about how they transitioned from semi-nomadic to sedentary only in the late 20th century, and that could definitely impart more local color to an otherwise coldly detached treatment of the topic. Great work. Viriditas (talk) 09:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)