Template:Did you know nominations/Lyncoya Jackson

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Narutolovehinata5 talk 08:46, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Lyncoya Jackson

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Jackson adopts Lyncoya

... that the adoption of a Muscogee orphan Lyncoya by Andrew Jackson (pictured) was framed by Jackson's political allies as a defense against charges that Jackson was a bloodthirsty Indian killer?
- Reviewed: Hyborian War

5x expanded by Jengod (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 199 past nominations.

KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC).

TYSM for the nice nomination KAVEBEAR! I am here at everybody's convenience for comments questions revisions etc. Cheers, jengod (talk) 03:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
Source for this hook: "For Jackson and his supporters, however, Lyncoya remained Jackson's "benevolent object." By telling the story of Lyncoya's adoption, they tried to craft Jackson into more than a military general who had slaughtered Indigenous peoples." From doi:10.18130/V3Q364 Rachel Jackson and the Search for Zion, 1760s-1830s, Gismondi, Melissa, University of Virginia, p. 152 jengod (talk) 00:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
Public domain image that's not too trauma-porn, just FYI --> File:Images from Pictorial Life of Andrew Jackson 1847 by John Frost illustrated by William Croome 04.jpg jengod (talk) 04:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0a ... that the adoption of a Muscogee orphan by Andrew Jackson (pictured), was framed by his political allies as a defense against charges that he was a bloodthirsty Indian killer?

Proposed a shorter wording for the original hook. This nomination still needs a full review. Flibirigit (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

shorter wording ALT0a looks great to me. TY! jengod (talk) 00:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- New and long enough at nomination time. No concerns about sourcing. Earwig flags quotes, but nothing else. That being said, I am concerned about the extent of the quoting in the article. DYKchecker says the article is 2754 words, not counting the block quotes (~2300 if you discount the lead). When you strip out the lengthy inline quotes, it drops to ~1800 words (~1400 without the lead). That's a solid 30% of the article (40% without the lead). Quoting to this extent verges on a copyright issue; even ignoring that, it isn't in line with MOS:QUOTE, which says overuse of quotations isn't encyclopedic writing. At a glance, much of it could be easily paraphrased.
  This isn't a DYK issue, but there is also extensive WP:SANDWICHing of text between images, which makes the block quoting even worse, visually. The newspaper articles should be removed; we're not supposed to include the full text of lengthy primary sources. The plant and the tornado should also be removed as irrelevant. The remaining images should be assessed for placement once that's sorted out.
  With apologies, on the basis of the quoting issues, I don't think this is ready for DYK right now. I have not yet assessed the hook, but I will if the rest is resolved. Courtesy pinging creator Jengod & nominator KAVEBEAR to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
  - Just to clarify I am not the creator I just expanded it in passing. I have cut some of the images and am working on summarizing all quotes from secondary sources. That said, I agree this article is not ready for the main page. Going into our holiday season, it might be a while before it's up to par. Could we close this nomination for now? Maybe we can revisit sometime next year when it's been further revised and had time to "mature" and develop the deeper flavors. Like good stew! Thanks to everyone engaging with it. You're all lovely. jengod (talk) 13:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
    - Sorry, my bad, I misread the history. I really appreciate your gracious response and hope your holidys are good :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
    - If this achieves "Good article" status at any time in the future, it could be nominated for DYK again if this active nominatio does not pass. We could leave this open until at least two months from when it started (December 17), to see what the nominator would like to do. Flibirigit (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
    - I've never engaged with the good article process (although if/when I do I need to start with my girl Dolly Johnson!), so maybe we should close it so KAVEBEAR can get a refund on their QPQ token sooner rather than later? jengod (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
      - There are no refunds on QPQs, since someone else had to review this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 21:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
        Oh that's wild but also makes total sense. Well. I have at least one more article I want to look at for this and I will continue fiddling with it, and I will ping PMC if I think there's any hope! Thanks for explaining and for all your patience. jengod (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Pinging KAVEBEAR if they are okay with the nomination being closed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Actually, I see that that KAVEBEAR hasn't edited since the 29th, so closing as unsuccessful, without prejudice against renominating if it is brought to GA status. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Reverted the premature close, since User:Jengod stated above that she is still looking into this. The nomination is not two months old and has not timed out. Flibirigit (talk) 14:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, Jengod did say she was fine with the nomination being closed and would try to bring this to GA instead; her saying she was looking for a new article seemed to be more for the GA nomination rather than for DYK. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, not to be totally dramatic about writing, but I need to re-read it approximately 20,000 more times, with fear and loathing in my heart, and consult 18 more sources, and psych myself up for a round of killing my darlings before I'm ready to run the gauntlet. Closing the nom is for the best. Blessings on the heads of every single one of you for trying though. <3 jengod (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I suppose that's a wrap. Closing. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)