Template:Did you know nominations/Karl Beth
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Redtigerxyz Talk 17:28, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Karl Beth
[edit]- ... that Karl Beth is considered one of the founding fathers of the psychology of religion?
Created/expanded by John Carter (talk). Self nom at 23:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
Length, date, hook's ref verified. Length was a couple of characters short, so I replaced the pronoun "he" with the surname enough times to assure the character count was a non-issue. No apparent paraphrasing issues. Interesting hook. Good to go, unless QPQ is required; as I didn't find any DYK credits on John Carter's talkpage, am unsure of the user's status. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
After some tightening and fixing, the article is at 1474 characters, not enough for DYK. More expansion is warranted. Some of the facts also don't hold together: his Ph.D date is given as 1938, which seems highly unlikely. The 1901 through 1906 timeline is also problematic: he becomes an instructor in 1901, shortly thereafter goes on his trip to Greece and Turkey, some five years later moves to Vienna, starts as a lecturer, and then in 1906 becomes a full professor and gets married. The five years alone takes one from 1901 to 1906; there isn't time for the trip (and the time as an instructor before he gets the stipend) much less the time as a lecturer in Vienna before being promoted to full professor. Note: QPQ is not required; no DYKs seen going back at least two years. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
- I've added a little detail to the biography, and corrected the really stupid 1938 typo, for which I am incredibly grateful to BlueMoonset for catching. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much more I could add without possible copyright vios. The subject has a five-paragraph article in the Eliade/Jones Encyclopedia of Religion, but it lists only two sources, both in German and old, for the subject. I can, and probably should, create a few articles on some of the books, like Religion und Magie, because that one is certainly notable, as are a few others, but am not sure how much of that content belongs in the biography article. Regarding the timeline questions, those are, pretty much, directly from the encyclopedia entry, which also says "shortly after he gave this [his inaugural] address" at the school, he received the travel stipend to study the Eastern Orthodox. I did in my draft version on the computer here screw up the date of his full professorship, which was 1908, not 1906, which is not what the encyclopedia says, and correct that. Sorry about that. John Carter (talk) 16:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
- Might you be able to give the actual year he moved to Vienna, rather than "some five years later"? Presumably it had to be by 1906, since he married a Viennese girl that year. The "later" phrase, though, becomes problematic given the new items you've added, which likely did not all also occur in 1901. Otherwise, it's looking quite good, and the article length now meets DYK requirements. Thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 04:14, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
- I've added a little detail to the biography, and corrected the really stupid 1938 typo, for which I am incredibly grateful to BlueMoonset for catching. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how much more I could add without possible copyright vios. The subject has a five-paragraph article in the Eliade/Jones Encyclopedia of Religion, but it lists only two sources, both in German and old, for the subject. I can, and probably should, create a few articles on some of the books, like Religion und Magie, because that one is certainly notable, as are a few others, but am not sure how much of that content belongs in the biography article. Regarding the timeline questions, those are, pretty much, directly from the encyclopedia entry, which also says "shortly after he gave this [his inaugural] address" at the school, he received the travel stipend to study the Eastern Orthodox. I did in my draft version on the computer here screw up the date of his full professorship, which was 1908, not 1906, which is not what the encyclopedia says, and correct that. Sorry about that. John Carter (talk) 16:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Nominator was reminded on his talk page on October 4 that issues still remained, and has edited on Wikipedia many times since without taking any action here or on the article. Under the circumstances, I don't see any point in keeping this nomination open any longer; the work this articles needs, while not major, isn't being done. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:59, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
- It may be a moot point, but there's also an issue of close paraphrasing here, from source [2] (available from highbeam).
- Our article: "Beth studied at the University of Berlin, under Adolf von Harnack, Otto Pfleiderer, and Wilhelm Dilthey, receiving his Ph.D in 1898 for his dissertation Die Grundanschungen Schleiermachers in seinem ersten Entwulf der philosophischen Sittenlehre. He became an instructor of systematic theology at that school in 1901." The source: "Karl Beth studied at the University of Berlin in the 1890s (under Adolf von Harnack, Otto Pfleiderer, and Wilhelm Dilthey), where he obtained his Ph.D. in 1898 with a dissertation entitled "Die Grundanschuungen Schleiermachers in seinem ersten Entwurf der philosophischen Sittenlehre"; he became an instructor of systematic theology at Berlin in 1901."
- Our article: "Shortly thereafter, Beth received a travel stipend that gave him the opportunity to go to areas of the Mediterranean under Greek and Turkish control." The source: "Shortly after [his inaugural address in Berlin], he received a travel stipend that enabled him to visit areas around the Mediterranean under Greek and Turkish control".
- Our article: "Some five years later, Beth moved to Vienna and taught at the university there, initially as a lecturer." The source: "Five years later he moved to Vienna and served at the university there, first as a lecturer".
- —David Eppstein (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
- It may be a moot point, but there's also an issue of close paraphrasing here, from source [2] (available from highbeam).
Ok, I've copyedited it to change up the wording and ordering a little more from the source. By my count it's just under 1700 characters, so long enough. I also found another source with a more precise dating of the move to Vienna. Was there anything else that needed attention? —David Eppstein (talk) 21:03, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, it's looking much better. The only thing I'm having trouble with is the new sentence, "By 1938, Beth was the Dean of Faculty at Austria." If you mean at the University of Vienna, it's a simple fix (if somewhere else, then more will be involved), but the source is in German, which is problematic for me. Can you please check this? Once this sentence makes sense in the context of the rest of the article, the nomination should be complete. Sorry it took me so long to get back to. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:05, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
- I meant U.Vienna; thanks for catching this. Fixed now. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:13, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Approved AGF because I can't read the German sources; all previous issues taken care of and article noticeably improved. Added DYKmake credit for David Eppstein for his hard work; this article would have been rejected without it. BlueMoonset (talk) 08:42, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
