Template:Did you know nominations/Ed Miliband bacon sandwich photograph

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BlueMoonset (talk) 05:58, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
DYK closure as unsuccessful per review and agreement by nominator.

Ed Miliband bacon sandwich photograph

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~~... that according to The Guardian, Ed Miliband's awkward eating of a bacon sandwich could have been because it was a bread roll and not sliced bread?~~

Reviewed: Siege of Sparta
Comment: This CAN NOT be featured until at least 8 May, due to rules regarding hooks on electoral candidates

Created by The Almightey Drill (talk). Self-nominated at 01:27, 8 April 2015 (UTC).

Facepalm Why did I not think of writing this? Article is brand new and has been all over the news more than him looking like Wallace. However, the hook is misleading, all The Guardian actually says is Nigel Farage is better at eating sandwiches, with the roll / slice comment being ancillary. So let's go with ALT1 ~~... that The Guardian thinks Nigel Farage is better at eating a bacon sandwich than Ed Miliband?~~ Paging @EEng: as he'll doubtless want to lob in an ALT once he gets hold of this. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 13:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Ritchie333 why not ALT2 ~~... that according to The Independent, David Cameron might eat hot dogs with a knife and fork to avoid resembling an awkward photograph of Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich?~~ This suggestion has also been touted by Sky News and the Express among others, but I used the Independent cite in the article as the other two are generally seen as Conservative-leaning, at least moreso than the Independent. I did take care when writing the article to avoid the most partisan sources within context. '''tAD''' (talk) 18:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Well, let's wait until the election's over, then whoever puts together the prep can pick the funniest! And if you can wean this or this or this into the article, even better. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

This spent six minutes on the Main Page before being pulled. Please see the discussion at WT:DYK#Problems with hook in Queue about to hit the Main Page. I've unstruck the original hook so it can be better reviewed, and I've struck ALT1. This nomination needs an actual, full review from a competent reviewer. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:56, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Now now, less of the personal attacks, young man. Anyway, to recap, I can't remember why I forgot to say the article was long enough at 3493 bytes of prose, and putting it into Earwig's tool did not report any copyvios - but it was and it didn't. The article since then has had stability problems. Recapping, the original hook is in the article and sourced but it's not really "hooky" enough to grab attention on the main page in my view. Nobody else has proposed any other hooks and the article is now out of date since Ed Miliband has resigned as Labour Leader and is keeping a low profile. So it's all out of date and I'd suggest we drop the whole thing, take a deep breath, and look at something else instead. Who's for sausage rolls? Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 11:52, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

There were no personal attacks. Please see my full response to that, including my review of the original review.
I see no reason why this shouldn't proceed (assuming the article's stable). If the article needs updating, then that should be done. If you mean "out of date" as in "nobody cares about the photo any more", well, most of the world has never heard of these people or the photograph, so the hook will be just as fresh and meaningful to them as it would have been before. And for those who are familiar with the subject, well this is an encyclopedia, which doesn't limit itself to topics which are currently in the news.
ALT2 seems hooky enough; the tense can be adjusted (might eat → might have eaten). MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:40, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Final ping to nominator The Almightey Drill. I posted the standard DYK-nomination-needs-attention template to tAD's talk page two days ago, and it has already been archived/deleted from the page without action here. This cannot run in its current form, though with a bit of work it could be made ready: the nominator needs to take an immediate interest in doing so. If there's still no action in 48 hours, I think we have to assume that tAD no longer cares to pursue the nomination, and mark it for closure. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:03, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't get what I'm supposed to do here, other people have to mark the suggestions '''tAD''' (talk) 19:54, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

The Almightey Drill, at the moment there are no valid hooks: the original and ALT1 are struck, and ALT2's tense makes it ineligible so I've struck it as well, though as Mandarax points out, the necessary modifications shouldn't be that difficult. If recasting ALT2 isn't feasible, then you can propose another hook altogether. Without a hook, the nomination will have to close. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

BlueMoonset ALT 2 altered: '''tAD''' (talk) 14:11, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

ALT2a: ... that according to The Independent, David Cameron may have chosen to eat hot dogs with a knife and fork to avoid resembling an awkward photograph of Ed Miliband eating a bacon sandwich?

Reviewer needed to check ALT2a and see whether hook and article can be approved. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

There are too many problems with this, including:

The Grant Shapps case demonstrates the importance of being careful with high-profile political BLP issues.
The current content is based upon the British press which is politically partisan and journalistic. They were playing the matter for laughs and/or to score points and so cannot be considered sufficiently reliable for our purposes.
The General Election is over but there is now an election for the Labour leadership which will not conclude until September. The other Miliband brother is talked of as a possible contender and so this might still be a live issue.
There was arguably an element of anti-semitism in the story, as noted by several sources such as The Independent. The article currently says nothing of this. This issue makes the topic even more toxic and dangerous.
The central feature of the story is the photograph but we don't have rights to this and so are having to claim fair use. If we run the story in a journalistic way, playing it for laughs on the front page, then this undermines our claim of fair use.
Talk of bread rolls, as in the original hook, is nonsense as it is quite clear from the photograph that the sandwich was made with slices of bread. This demonstrates, if proof were needed, that newspaper coverage is not reliable. The article still links to bread roll and any child can see that this is a glaring error. As this is a BLP matter and errors cannot be tolerated, immediate action is required. My first thought is to redirect the page to Ed Miliband or United Kingdom general election, 2015 but neither of them even mention the incident. This further demonstrates the risk that we might be giving this undue weight. Bacon sandwich will have to do as a target for now. That doesn't mention the matter either but it's a weak article and so could perhaps use a paragraph on the matter.

Andrew D. (talk) 06:24, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

I'd glady close the DYK as there seems to be no way to present it without negative reporting on a living person. But the subject itself is an actual phenomenon and if there's a way to make its coverage more holistic and neutral, step right in! '''tAD''' (talk) 17:13, 13 June 2015 (UTC)