Template:Did you know nominations/Eadwine Psalter

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:06, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Eadwine Psalter

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A tonsured monk writing at a desk

... that the Eadwine Psalter of c. 1155–60 has a famous portrait of Eadwine, "prince of scribes", (pictured), and illustrations to the psalms copied from a book then over 300 years old?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Michael I Komnenos Doukas
Comment: This might be treated as new, with a co-nom, as I expanded a new stub. but frankly this was so awful I'm not inclined to give the author of that DYK credit. But I don't feel strongly.

5x expanded by Johnbod (talk). Self-nominated at 12:53, 8 July 2015 (UTC).

Long enough, neutral, only paraphrasing/copyvios concerns are caused by properly attributed direct quotes. Doesn't meet the criteria for new enough. This article was 5x expanded, but it started over 9 days ago at the time of nomination. I'm not inclined to apply WP:IAR because I believe this article can be brought up to Good Article quality with little additional effort, which would then make it eligible for DYK again. There is no in-line citation after the sentence that dates the psalter to 1165. I'd also like to see an additional in-line citation in the lead immediately following the sentence that first notes the similarities between the Utrechet Psalter's illustrations and those in this psalter. The hook as written is a bit confusing, especially the double use of "Eadwine" and the use of the vague verb "has". The big issue is the newness; the remaining issues are easy to fix. I'd recommend looking into WP:GA. ~ Rob^Talk 11:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it was a couple of days late, but it is a long article & I was busy with other stuff. After various experiences there I won't be putting it up for GA - I haven't done any of those for years. I will add repeat citations if we can agree on the timing issue. Johnbod (talk) 12:26, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I personally wouldn't apply WP:IAR to an article multiple days over the deadline that still has an opportunity to go through the GA process and become eligible for DYK again. You're welcome to seek another opinion, though. ~ Rob^Talk 13:35, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Second look needed. The current refs 4 (already there) and 18 (added) cover the hook points above. Thanks for the review anyway. Johnbod (talk) 14:09, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

I will take that second look unless someone beats me to it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:35, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Excellent expansion on quality sources, well illustrated, - I don't mind a few days late for such a treasure. The hook reads a bit too complicated for my taste. Can we just stop after the prince of scribes. The copying from the Utrecht book is interesting, but will it generate extra clicks? - If you want to keep it, make it a longer pipe or mention the title, a link to "a book" looks a bit quirky to me ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:43, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

By the way, the sentence with ref 4 in the article lists the date as 1155-1160, not 1165. 1165 seems to be in the article elsewhere, but with no cite on the sentences where it pops up. Somewhere in the article, there needs to be the fact you're using and a citation together as per eligibility criteria #3. ~ Rob^Talk 15:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Well observed, - it would be nice if "The current broad consensus is to date most of the book to 1165-70, but the portrait of Eadwine and the waterworks drawings to perhaps a decade later." had a citation. I guess the hook could do without any date, because it should be pictured, giving it away to those who know, the others possibly not interested in that part of the fact anyway. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:09, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, i'm travelling at the moment but will check my books around the end of the week. Johnbod (talk) 19:16, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Fine, no rush after all those centuries, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:24, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed, and referenced. I've amended the hook to a range rather than a single year. Johnbod (talk) 23:42, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Required QPQ review still not done. --Allen3 ^talk 13:15, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

revwd Template:Did you know nominations/Michael I Komnenos Doukas - sorry, forgot this was o/s. Johnbod (talk) 13:36, 30 July 2015 (UTC)