Template:Did you know nominations/Dead heat (racing)
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:04, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
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Dead heat (racing)
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A photo finish captures a triple dead heat
... that a dead heat (pictured) occurs in racing when it is impossible to tell which of multiple competitors finished first?[1]- ALT1:... that Olympic swimming races are deliberately timed to only the nearest hundredth of a second, resulting in more dead heats? [2]
- ALT2:... that the term "dead heat" originates from the sport of horse racing?[3]
- Comment: Newly created article on a term in racing sports - a glossary entry and List of dead heat horse races existed before this but there was no article on the specific phenomenon. Hook choices range from a simple definition to more specific.
Created by LukeSurl (talk). Self-nominated at 18:22, 22 February 2018 (UTC).
Hi LukeSurl, review follows: Article moved to mainspace 23 February; article is of good length; article is well written and cited throughout to reliable sources; no copyvio detected; hooks are all interesting and cited in the article (I added the dic def reference, and changed to refer to Olympic swimming only as the source doesn't state whether this applies to all races); user is exempt from QPQ requirement due to fewer than five previous noms; AGF on the image license (I cannot be sure it hasn't previously been published with a copyright tag) but seems appropriate given its age; preference is for the first hook if the picture is used or the second if not (the second hook is more interesting to me but the picture is great) - Dumelow (talk) 10:08, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Hi Dumelow, thank you for the review. The swimming fact applies to all FINA competition, and not just the Olympics. In these edits I have added two references to verify this. --LukeSurl t c 16:06, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying LukeSurl. In that case I am happy for the "Olympic" in the hook to be changed to "FINA" if desired. Personally I think the Olympics is more recognisable but will leave it up to the hook selector - Dumelow (talk) 12:37, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I came by to promote the first hook with the image, but I do not understand how this hook fact (cited in the lead) remotely resembles the source. The article says: a dead heat is a rare situation where the performances of competitors are close enough such that no difference between them can be resolved. The source says: a competition in which two or more competitors finish at exactly the same time or with exactly the same result. It says nothing about being "close enough" or resolving differences. Yoninah (talk) 22:27, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
- To me they mean the same thing. If you are measuring time and there is no difference between the two competitors then they have the same time. If you are just watching the finish line (ie the race isn't timed) and can't tell who finished first then it is a dead heat. LukeSurl, you may wish to reword the first sentence to more closely resemble the source - Dumelow (talk) 00:35, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
- Hi. The discrepancy is a tricky one. Normally dead heats are reported as "X and Y crossed the finish line together", but Wikipedia is generally more technical/pedantic than that. Technically speaking, competitors' times are continuous variables, and the chance of them being exactly the same are, mathematically, nil. Dead heats occur because the precision of measurements to determine race positions are always limited. This is too pedantic a distinction for a dictionary definition however, which is why I didn't include this reference in the original text of the manuscript - this was added by Dumelow. The importance of timing precision comes up twice in the article: 1) Horse races had fewer dead heats once photo finishes were introduced and 2) the swimming fact quoted above. I'd prefer to lose the non-technical reference and allow this first-sentence fact to be implicitly supported by the rest of the article. --LukeSurl t c 10:49, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- Doh, apologies I had forgotten I had added this reference to support the first hook. I am happy with the solution LukeSurl suggests. I have struck the first hook and the other two are supported per above. Yoninah are you happy to promote one of the other two hooks?- Dumelow (talk) 11:08, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- I agree with LukeSurl's approach, and the lead doesn't need a cite at all. But the image is great and I think we should fashion a hook to match it. How about:
- ALT3:
... that dead heats between two or even three racehorses (pictured) have become much less common since the introduction of the photo finish?Yoninah (talk) 11:40, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on this hook Yoninah, it will be great to see the picture on the main page. Your suggested hook looks good to me though the source says only that "dead heats used to be more common in the days before photo finishes" so I don't think the "much less" qualifier should be used. - Dumelow (talk) 02:53, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
- @Dumelow: OK, so:
- ALT3a: ... that dead heats between two or even three racehorses (pictured) were more common before the introduction of the photo finish? Yoninah (talk) 01:26, 16 March 2018 (UTC)
- Doh, apologies I had forgotten I had added this reference to support the first hook. I am happy with the solution LukeSurl suggests. I have struck the first hook and the other two are supported per above. Yoninah are you happy to promote one of the other two hooks?- Dumelow (talk) 11:08, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- Hi. The discrepancy is a tricky one. Normally dead heats are reported as "X and Y crossed the finish line together", but Wikipedia is generally more technical/pedantic than that. Technically speaking, competitors' times are continuous variables, and the chance of them being exactly the same are, mathematically, nil. Dead heats occur because the precision of measurements to determine race positions are always limited. This is too pedantic a distinction for a dictionary definition however, which is why I didn't include this reference in the original text of the manuscript - this was added by Dumelow. The importance of timing precision comes up twice in the article: 1) Horse races had fewer dead heats once photo finishes were introduced and 2) the swimming fact quoted above. I'd prefer to lose the non-technical reference and allow this first-sentence fact to be implicitly supported by the rest of the article. --LukeSurl t c 10:49, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
- To me they mean the same thing. If you are measuring time and there is no difference between the two competitors then they have the same time. If you are just watching the finish line (ie the race isn't timed) and can't tell who finished first then it is a dead heat. LukeSurl, you may wish to reword the first sentence to more closely resemble the source - Dumelow (talk) 00:35, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks for clarifying LukeSurl. In that case I am happy for the "Olympic" in the hook to be changed to "FINA" if desired. Personally I think the Olympics is more recognisable but will leave it up to the hook selector - Dumelow (talk) 12:37, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
