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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 22:37, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

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Amir al-Hajj

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Created by Al Ameer son (talk). Self-nominated at 22:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC).

  • @Al Ameer son: Well written. Article is long enough and posted by due date. Hook reference verified. No copy vio noted. Once the QPQ is done I will give a green tick.--Nvvchar. 20:02, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
  • @Nvvchar: Is it too late to request this nomination be reserved for the first day of Hajj, which should fall 21-23 September? Will do the QPQ tomorrow. --Al Ameer (talk) 02:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I was thinking on the same lines. Yes, after approval it will be shifted to the special holding page for appearance on the Main page from 21-23 September. --Nvvchar. 02:45, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Just did the QPQ by the way. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Sorry, but no, that date won't work. With the exception of April Fools' Day, date requests are acceptable for a maximum of six weeks from nomination This was nominated on July 8, so the latest possible date request would be August 19. Your desired date is about eleven weeks. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 06:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • . Now that QPQ is done I am glad to give green tick to this article. @Al Ameer son:, as the latest date by which the nomination can appear on the maan page is 18th August, please indicate if this date is suitable.--Nvvchar. 14:47, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • If that's the absolute latest, then the 18th is fine. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:23, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Al Ameer son, Nvvchar, I went to promote this and couldn't. First, there's a grammatical problem with the hook, in that "protecting" is the wrong tense, yet I don't think that "protected" works either because the subject of the bulk of it through the comma is the pilgrims, while in the last clause the subject's become the Hajj caravan. Second, and most important, the hook facts don't seem to be supported by an inline source citation by the end of the sentence in which they variously appear, and that's a basic DYK requirement. I'm moving this back into the main section while it's being worked and reviewed; once the issues have been addressed and it's approved again, it should be promoted in the regular way (it won't be eligible for another stay in the special occasion section). Thanks for addressing these issues. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Fixed the grammar issues I think. Will add the inline citation. --Al Ameer (talk) 03:33, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • You should always leave existing hooks alone, and add ALTs for any revisions. I've restored the original hook, which is the one that was originally reviewed (though I've also struck it); here's your revised ALT1:
Unfortunately, "protecting" is still a grammatical problem. Here's an ALT2 that I think fixes the issue:
  • ALT2: ... that the amir al-hajj supervised the financing and supplying of the annual Hajj pilgrim caravan to Mecca and Medina, and the protection of it from Bedouin raiders?
I'm assuming that he supervised financing, supply, and protection. If he was more actively involved in the latter, then perhaps a further revision is in order. —BlueMoonset (talk) 03:52, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • The ALT2 Hook verified. Ref 2 and 3 confirms the hook text. Other issues have been verified earlier. Good to go.--Nvvchar
  • You know, Nvvchar, I've looked and I've looked, but I don't see that ref 2 or ref 3 are used in conjunction with the Bedouin, much less protection from them. Can you please point out to me where that hook fact is confirmed with an inline source at the end of the sentence in which it occurs? I certainly could have missed it. If not, then let's wait for Al Ameer son to add that inline citation as he said he'd do earlier. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
I added ALT3 as my preferred phrasing, but I'm fine with ALT2 as well. As for the inline citation, Ref 3 (Damurdashi Page 20) says The amir al-hajj had the responsibility ... to either repel bedouin attacks upon the caravan or pay them for safe conduct through their territories. I added Ref 3 directly after the sentence on protection from the Bedouin (2nd sentence of "Duties" section). Hopefully this sorts things out. If not I could find other sources already used in the article or outside of the article to further support the hook. Protecting, funding and provisioning the caravan were the main duties of an Amir al-Hajj. --Al Ameer (talk) 23:09, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed to check ALT2 and ALT3 now that sourcing has been updated. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:13, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Note: Made a minor tweak to the hooks because the article was recently renamed to "amir al-hajj" instead of "Amir al-Hajj". --Al Ameer (talk) 23:34, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Alt3 please I have checked alt3 - everything else is above. There was a request to have this on "the first day of Hajj, which should fall 21-23 September". Can this be moved to the 22nd? Victuallers (talk) 15:06, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, but as noted earlier, the latest special occasion date this could hope for, given when it was nominated, is August 18—its original special occasion date—which is now passed. (In fact, it would have been promoted then if the hook had been properly sourced.) Having used up its special occasion opportunity, it should be promoted normally, and hopefully soon. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:53, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
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