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Zlata Ognevich origin

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Jjj1238, you recently reverted my changes about Zlata Ognevich that do not correspond to the article. Fist of all where was Zlata born Sudak or Murmansk? Second of all does Murmansk located in Ukraine or Russia? If she was born in Russia, she is a Russian who later switched her nationality, but primarily she was a Russian, not Ukrainian. So, as she was born, Zlata was a Russian person of Jewish descent living in Murmansk. Later her family moved to Sudak, Crimean Oblast when Zlata was still underage. People who emigrated from Russia to Ukraine category denotes people who arrived to Ukraine for permanent residence. With the fall of the Soviet Union, all people of Ukraine who lived there at that time received Ukrainian citizenship automatically. So would you please, explain me the reason you reverted my changes. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 19:32, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is where you're incorrect. Being born in Russia does not instantly make her Russian, especially considering the fact that Russia uses jus sanguinis, which means she'd need a Russian parent to be a citizen. It says even in the article that her parents are Ukrainian. As far as we know, she is solely a Ukrainian citizen. Anyways, Ognevich's career is in Ukraine, she served in the Ukrainian government, represented Ukraine in an international music competition, identifies as a Ukrainian, and has spoken out in support of Ukraine's territorial integrity. Look at articles like Savannah Guthrie. Guthrie was born to Americans in Australia. She is by no means an Australian, simply an American born in Australia. The category "Russian emigrants to Ukraine" could be used for Ognevich, but nothing entirely removing her Ukrainian connection (as you previously removed categories relating to Ukraine in favor of making them relate to Russia). Until you have a source of Ognevich identifying herself as a Russian (which you won't find), her nationality should not be changed. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 19:41, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Jjj1238, you are being incorrect. I suggest you to look at least at the Wikipedia article Citizenship of Russia#Terminology. There is no documents that support your claim of the "by blood rule". Second of all, she was born when Russia was part of the Soviet Union, therefore her parents were citizens of the Soviet Union. For the purpose of disambiguity, Zlata was born in Murmansk, Russian SFSR and she was born as Russian to parents who are ethnically Ukrainian. She is a Russian person of Ukrainian descent. Also it seems that some her parents are Jewish, therefore she also a Russian person of Jewish descent. However, the Jewish descent, I bet, is not even relevant, as there are no evidence of her practicing Judaism or speaking in Hebrew nor Yiddish. My grandparents were Jewish and my dad considers himself as Jewish, but I do not see him that way. I was born in Ukraine to parent who were born in Ukraine, while my last name clearly denotes my Russian descent. Therefore I am Ukrainian person of Russian descent. Your example with Savannah Guthrie does not prove anything. It does not even technically categorize her under any descent, but she is obviously was born as an Australian to American parents. I never denied the fact that Zlata is a Ukrainian singer or Ukrainian politician. She obviously is. And because she has Ukrainian parents, her family moved back to Ukraine. But Zlata did not go back to Ukraine as she started out her life in Russia, not Ukraine. Zlata technically simply moved to Ukraine instead of going back. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 20:14, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You cannot just assume that her parents are Russians of Ukrainian descent simply because she was born in the territory of now-Russia (as you've said, this was all the same country at the time of her birth). In the article, it states "Ognevich in interviews has claimed she has lived in "many cities and countries".". So if Ognevich was to be born in let's say, Sweden? And then moved to Ukraine at a young age. That'd instantly make her Swedish and her parents be Swedes of Ukrainian descent. No it doesn't. A person's birthplace does not equal their nationality, and so for your claims of a Jewish background, I've removed that from the page (in addition to her supposed Chechen background) as that was entirely unsourced. There are countless other articles of ex-Soviet people who were born in a certain Republic but grew up and are citizens of another one. Look at Nina Sublatti. She was born to Georgian parents in Russia (not even Russian SFSR). Is she a Russian person just because she was born there? No. She has no connection to Russia besides it being her place of birth. She is a full-blooded Georgian. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 20:30, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jjj1238, I am not assuming anything. I am stating facts. You see, Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians of Russian descent are two different concepts. Look at the article about Natasha Koroleva. It is the same nonsense. She is categorized as a Russian of Ukrainian descent, while her own sister is non-Russian. Is that normal? They were born in the same city to the same parents who both are Ukrainians. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have never intended to claim that parents of Ognevich are Russians, I was saying that Zlata was born in Russia to Ukrainian parents therefore she was born Russian of Ukrainian descent. And if Zlata would be born in Sweden, she would be a Swede of Ukrainian descent, but it does not mean that her parents would be Swedes. You did not understand me correctly and I have no idea why you bringing her parent to that issue. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Zlata was born to Ukrainian parents who after moving to Russia became Ukrainians in Russia, not Russians. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:24, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that you confuse citizenship with nationality. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At that time there was no Russian or Ukrainian citizenship, but rather the Soviet citizenship. People however were of different nationality. Zlata's parents were Ukrainians who moved to Russia. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:27, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jjj1238, Gaitana (singer) is not considered to be Congolese, just because her parents are from Congo. She was born in Kiev and therefore she is Ukrainian of African descent. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jjj1238, Nina Sublatti article is still consistent with my claim. It states that she is a Russian emigrant to Georgia, which is true due to the fact that she was born in Moscow. It seems that she could be a Russian of Georgia descent. I just do not know who she is. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 17:34, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Zlata Ognevich. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

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Origins, again

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I linked a BBC article where the is written she has italian and serbian origins, there is also an interview where she says it.. --2.226.12.134 (talk) 22:15, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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