Talk:Zaculeu

Zaculeu has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 27, 2010	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 11, 2010.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the Mam Maya capital city of Zaculeu (fragment pictured) fell to Spanish conquistador Gonzalo de Alvarado y Chávez after a siege that lasted several months?

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Modern Maya

includes dozens of different languages. Which is it that spells the place Saqulew? -LlywelynII (talk) 22:34, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Saqulew is in K'iche'. --Big-latigo (talk) 13:52, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Zaculeu/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: maclean (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good article review (see Wikipedia:What is a good article? for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
See notes below
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy:
It is stable:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
6 Creative Commons photographs, 1 Creative Commons map - all ok
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Notes

"Zaculeu was first occupied in the Early Classic Period (AD 250–600),[6] and the buildings from this era show the influence of Teotihuacán." - an adjective describing what Teotihuacán is would help. Also, what specifically is meant by "influence of Teotihuacán"?

I've clarified this in the article. Simon Burchell (talk) 17:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Zaculeu has been used as a ceremonial site by Mam Maya continuously to the present." - does the phrase "continuously to the present" mean it is still used in 2010 by Mam Maya? Later in the article it states "Zaculeu was abandoned".

-Zaculeu was abandoned, however the ancient remains still have significance for modern Maya, and modern Maya shamans regularly perform rites among the ruins - as they do at ruins throughout Guatemala. Simon Burchell (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are numerous mentions of Mexico in reference to something that took place long before there was a Mexico.
- For example, "Zaculeu again came under the influence of central Mexico in the Late Classic... - Mexico is a modern country that was created well after the Late Classic period.

In the literature, Mexico is used to refer to the Valley of Mexico and the various ancient peoples resident there (i.e. the area around modern Mexico city). In archaeological publications Mexican influence usually means the influence of cities such as Teotihuacan or Tenochtitlan that were occupied in the valley or the surrounding area of central Mexico, see for example the articles on Seibal and Tikal, which also refer to Mexican influence. The modern name of Mexico is derrived from the Mexica people that lived in the Valley at the time of the Spanish Conquest(the Aztecs). I've clarified this somewhat in the article. Simon Burchell (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In 'Spanish conquest', "...in October of that year." - is this referring to 1525?

Yes, 1525, I've tweaked the article to make this specific. Simon Burchell (talk) 08:33, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In 'Spanish conquest', "...and it is said that the survivors were..." - this is passive voice. Who said it?

My source said it, I've rephrased the sentence. Simon Burchell (talk) 17:12, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plaza 1 is the main plaza... - why no such description of Plazas 2-8?

Lack of published information! Simon Burchell (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is a list of Structures. Why no mention of Structures 5, 7, 8, 14, 18, 19, 20? And why such uneven descriptions of the Structures (some are much more detailed than others)

Again, I am limited by my sources. Simon Burchell (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 06:32, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

- The reference An archaeological guide to northern Central America: Belize, Guatemala ... By Joyce Kelly (pages 203 and on) seems to have additional information regarding the layout and other plazas. It may not provide measurements but provides an idea of the layout. I think the map image is communicated what is trying to be said in the article using a list. A Guide to Ancient Maya Ruins By C. Bruce Hunter (page 193) may also help. --maclean (talk) 05:59, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I should have spotted that in Kelly! Thanks - I've added plaza details as a text description of Kelly's map.Simon Burchell (talk) 08:14, 19 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am glad to see you were able to expand the list. I have passed this as a GA but also encourage further work on the prose if it is to be nominated for featured status. -maclean (talk) 03:52, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Maclean! I don't think I'll be putting this up for FA anytime soon, I don't think there's enough info available... All the best, Simon Burchell (talk) 07:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology and location

The etimology for both Mam and Q'anjob'al maya was not accurate. In Mam language, "Earth" is twitz tx'otx' and "Soil" is tx'otx'. In Q'anjob'al language is Yib'an q'inal and tx'otx'ej, respectively. I made such distinction, since in Mayan languages the words for Earth and soil aren't interchangeable, as opposed to Indoeuropean counterparts.

Maya' Choltzij: Vocabulario comparativo, Oxlajuuj Keej Maya' Ajtz'iib', Cholsamaj, 2003

Big-latigo (talk) 14:21, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've undone the change for now, since the information is cited. I'm sure there is more than one way of saying these things, but I will go back to my sources to check this... Simon Burchell (talk) 17:11, 3 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]