Talk:Yury Kuznetsov

What sould be on this page?

OK, as my changes to the pages have been reverted twice by the same editor, the last time with the comment that "their names shouldn't be repeated in a foreign lang, and there shouldn't be links to foreign lang articles", I'll try to explain myself here.

I originally visited this page looking for the ice hockey player taking part in the 2001 World Championship, and he was not on the page. I visited the Russian and Finnish pages and added the individuals present there. I hardly see any way to avoid repeating the term Yuri Kuznetsov on this page if it sounds too foreign, and I don't think we should translate it into George Smith even if Yuri means George and Kuznetsov means Smith.

Per MOS:DAB I don't see anything against putting entries with a red link, as long as they are likely to have their own page, which I believe they are because these pages exist on another Wikipedia. I don't see anything either against putting a foreign language link using the {{ill}} template, because these links will disappear once the page is created; it is the purpose of this template.

I made a new attempt at organising the page, please discuss here what you like and don't like before deleting valid information or sorting. I hope with consensus we can find an acceptable way to make changes. Place Clichy (talk) 16:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I think Place Clichy has used an elegant and sensible solution to the problem of disambiguating where English articles should exist, but where we're likely to have only foreign-Wikipedia articles for a while. This often seems to come up in the area of notable persons (both historical and contemporary). Remember that the notability criteria are not language-specific (i.e., a person who is the subject of extensive media or scholarly discussion, but only in a foreign language, passes our notability criteria). Ideally, MOS:DAB should be improved by writing something like this in as an explicit recommendation; meanwhile, let's keep this page in its more useful state. Wareh (talk) 17:16, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I still disagree, I think this looks messy, doesn't meet the guidelines and it is highly unlikely to be useful to the average user, who if they could read Russian would probably have gone there first to look for a Russian person. In my edit summary, I seem not to have been clear when talking about foreign language repetition of the names, I meant the link to the Russian articles, not that the page should be called George Smith. I tagged it for clean-up to get further opinions, because I think if people are in favour of this approach, then the guidelines should be changed. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 19:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Messiness is very subjective (it looks tidy to me), but I'd like to respond briefly on the subject of usefulness. Anyone whose first language is English will probably look here. But (A) those searching for persons better known in other language contexts (and that's almost automatically true of anyone who has a foreign article but not an English article) are in fact likely to have at least a smattering of that language, given their interest, and (B) don't forget that tools like translate.google.com make those articles semi-accessible to those with no ability in the language whatsoever. What I most like about this approach, though, is that it concisely answers the question that's constantly coming up about redlinks--are they in fact notable topics that ought to have English articles about them--while providing the link to the source that a truly expert editor, at least, would use to create those English articles. Wareh (talk) 19:59, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

• Messy sounds subjective, but it stands in for "cluttered", which is quite objective: material that is not useful to the target audience, English-speaking users (who include a very small fraction of en/ru bilinguals). In fact, the single interlanguage lk for the Dab page provides adequately for those who are prepared to use the ru: articles.
  I do, however, disapprove of discarding the entries that correspond to ru: articles, as opposed to removing them to this talk page where they can assist (undelayed by a slog thru the edit-war-bloated edit history) those prepared to write the articles, without impeding the navigational function of the Dab page.
  Think of it this way: the article, or the Dab in this case, is for users, not for assisting editors; we editors ("we happy few") have the talk page to serve the needs that non-editors do not share in. The harm of the couple of months of clutter that persisted on the Dab page without any of the rd lks going blue was not that great, but the lack of expansion demonstrates the lack of utility of the non-complying red links. Now it's time to clean house.
  --Jerzy•t 08:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
  

Removed entries

Removed 08:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC); please strike thru each of the following entries thus (surrounding with <s>   </s>) for the convenience & efficiency of later editors, when you adapt it to put a valid entry on the accompanying article Dab page. The info already struck thru may aid editors but would be clutter on the Dab page, w/o facilitating Dab'n. ^{Jerzy•t 08:02, 15 April 2010 (UTC)}

== Science and arts ==

* Yury Polikarpovich Kuznetsov (1941—2003), Soviet & Russian poet

* Yury Ivanovich Kuznetsov (born 1928), Soviet diplomat

* Yury Nikolayevich Kuznetsov (scientist) (born 1940), Ukrainian scientist & inventor

* Yury Alexandrovich Kuznetsov (born 1946), Russian film and theater actor

* Yury Nikolayevich Kuznetsov (writer) (born 1950), Russian writer

Russian sport players:

* Yuri Kuznetsov (ice hockey, born 1965) (born Moscow 1965), in SM-liiga Finland

* Yury Kuznetsov (hockey wing) (born Novosibirsk 1971), in 2001 Russian national hockey team national team

* Yury Kuznetsov (gymnast) (born 1985), gymnast who participated in the 2004 World Sports Acrobatics Championships