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GA Review

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Ojorojo (talk · contribs) 18:06, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be happy to review this. Give me a couple of days to put my initial comments together. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:06, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Ojorojo! Thanks for taking the time to review this. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 18:23, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting article about a true classic of the era. Close to GA-status, but needs some MOS tweaks. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Ojorojo: First set of revisions done - did some rewording and added new info to lead, minor changes to infobox. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 00:32, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Beatleswhobeachboys, I've made some minor corrections that I thought were easier than listing them. Change if you disagree. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ojorojo - thanks for correcting: I only changed one little grammar error (Dave Davies was referred to as the Kink's guitarist, which I changed to Kinks'). Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 23:31, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good job, let's wrap it up. Please finish the bit about the quotes in the lead (see Lead "Power chords/influence second section" below). I made a few corrections, change as you see fit. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:17, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I didn't make any revisions: I think your edits were very good in cleaning up the article. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 21:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Added some more stuff - expanded live, added a couple more facts in the other sections, and created a "Music and lyrics" section for that bit in the lead that wasn't in the body. Change anything you need to. Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 01:07, 2 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

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Lead

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  • References and links in the lead
    • According to WP:LEADCITE, sources in the lead are not necessary, except for actual quotes, because the material must be included and referenced in the body. Also, links should be used for topics that are closely related to the subject MOS:CONTEXTLINK. Maybe, unlink words like single, UK singles chart, hit song, etc. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Removed most citations
  • It was released..., It was the group's..., It was later included...
  • Power chords/influence second section
    • The first sentence seems redundant, plus quotes in the lead must be included in the body. Maybe leave/expand the first sentence and move the second with the quotes to the "Recording" section. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Reworked paragraph; the second sentence is still in the opening, but I have merged the first sentence into the other parts
        • Maybe you just haven't added it yet, but neither the ideas in the quotes nor the refs are included in the body of the article. According to WP:LEAD, "Apart from trivial basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." Perhaps address the use of guitar power chords and the song as precursor to hard rock and heavy metal along with the use of distortion in the "Recording" or "Release and reception" sections. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:17, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No mention of writing or recording
  • Quotation marks outside of punctuation
  • No mention of Van Halen
  • "Best of" details
    • The lead should include a general overview and not be burdened with too many details. Maybe, "'YRGM' was inducted into the GHOF and several music publications have included it on various 'Best of' lists in recognition of its enduring popularity and influence". Also, the details need to be included somewhere in the body, such as an "Accolades/Recognition/Awards" section. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:50, 27 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Moved info down to Release & Reception section

Background

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  • 'YRGM' was first written by Ray Davies ...
    • Up to this point, he hasn't been identified. Maybe include, "...Ray Davies, the Kinks' vocalist and main songwriter ..."
      • Done.
  • the song's characteristic riff came about while working out the chords of The Kingsmen's "Louie Louie"
    • Chronologically, I think this refers to the last, guitar-power chord driven version and should be listed last. The blues and jazz references probably apply more to the inspiration and earlier versions. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Done.

Recording

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  • The amplifier was affectionately called "little green" ... slaved into a Vox AC-30.
    • Correct me if I'm wrong, but slaving essentially uses one amp's pre-amp in place of or in addition to a second amp's pre-amp. In other words, little green's pre-amp would be driving the Vox's power section with all the sound coming out of the latter – little green's power section (and its output to the "modified" speaker would be bypassed). To get the little green speaker sound out of the Vox, it would have to be miked, a different technique than slaving. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK. I personally am not very knowledgeable about these techinques, so I will take your word for it.
  • Recent Kinks' releases have given full official credits ...

Guitar solo

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  • ... one of the most controversial and persistent myths in all of rock and roll ..."
  • ... UK rhythm and blues community ...
  • ... interview with the blog Finding Zoso:
  • Ray Davies, in his autobiographical release Storyteller ...
    • This is a difficult paragraph. How about something like "In his autobiographical release Storyteller, Ray Davies discusses the guitar solo. He confirms that his brother Dave played the solo and it was preceded by some bantering between the two: 'Halfway through the song ... [cite using Template:Cite AV media for track on Storyteller (LyricsTime.com is probably copyrightvio)]"" —Ojorojo (talk) 17:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Release and reception

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Live history

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  • Infobox
    • This single doesn't appear important enough for an infobox – the references don't provide critical commentary and it didn't chart. Also, the subsection is too small to allow for it. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't know... to me it makes navigation a lot easier. Also, lots of links to the song redirect to this section, making it a good visual. I can cut out much of the redundant info (writer, genre, format, etc.) and maybe the pic, though. I'll try to find more for the live info as well.
  • Both Ray and Dave Davies still perform the song ...

Personnel

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    • This section is unneeded. The 1964 version personnel is already listed in the "Recording" section and the 1979 live version is not important enough for a listing. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Removed.

Charts

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Van Halen version

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  • as an "updated" version of the original ...
    • Are there any RS that might discuss how it differs from the original?
      • Added allmusic quotes.
  • He also told of how Kinks fans ...
  • Ray Davies, on the other hand ...
  • References
    • For consistency, references that have author, title, year, publisher, ISBN should be listed in "Sources" subsection, with sfn used for citation with page. These include Creswell and Walser. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK: revised
  • Release and reception: in BBC poll – provide cite; Q magazine and VH1 – citations incorrectly show orig & archive info. Use temp cite web to show similar info as Rolling Stone ref. —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Re-did cite
  • Live history: remained a mainstay in concert – since there are page numbers for the rest of the Hinman refs, this should have one too; even after twenty years ... – it would look more RS if the website were identified as "Dave Davies (official website)" or "davedavies.com" —Ojorojo (talk) 13:12, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • I did that because throughout the entire book there are setlists (not one specific statement that said it was a mainstay) I can cut it if it isn't relevant
  • Charts: Year-end charts – although titled "Official Charts Company" and Billboard Year-End, these appear to link to user generated-list sites that are not on WP:GOODCHARTS. Please replace or remove. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Found new source for Billboard, cut UK chart
  • Images, etc.
    • The musical notation for the riff is unreferenced and misleading. It shows a key of B major. Dave described writing it with alternating G and F chords and one sheet music chart shows the key of G major. The song itself sounds like A, although it later shifts to B, etc. (OR). Unless you can find a RS, this should be left out. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:52, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK: image cut.
    • Why are "Guitar solo" and "Live history" subsections? It seems they function as regular sections. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

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GA review (see here for criteria)

Most of these points are addressed above. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
    The last MOS lead issue has been resolved.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    The sources are RS.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    Covers all the points.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Thanks Beatleswhobeachboys. The Kinks' Greatest Hits! was the first album I bought (mono, because it was more affordable $2.69?). This should qualify for DYK if you're interested. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:43, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Ojorojo Thanks for passing! The Kinks are a great band with so many amazing songs (even in the eighties they could manage gems such as "Better Things" and "Come Dancing"), but info is kind of scarce. Though for the hits, such as this one and "Lola," there's more to find. Thanks for your in-depth review, once again! Beatleswhobeachboys (talk) 15:03, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]