Talk:Yitzhak Suknik

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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 September 2022. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on May 11, 2022. The result of the discussion was Delete.

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The content of this article has been derived in whole or part from https://1943.pl/en/artykul/koza-part-2-no-longer-sheep-but-fighters/. Permission has been received from the copyright holder to release this material under both the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license and the GNU Free Documentation License. You may use either or both licenses. Evidence of this has been confirmed and stored by VRT volunteers, under ticket number 2022040710008341.
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Notability?

Okay, so I'm the one that processed and approved the permission ticket, but as the article is currently written I have no idea whether Suknik is notable or not. How many of the sources are reliable, secondary sources that discuss him with significant coverage, rather than the situation he was in? VernoWhitney (talk) 13:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@VernoWhitney, the permission ticket source itself, from Warsaw Ghetto Museum, should count towards WP:GNG right? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:16, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see now that it was discussed at the afd, so it counts, but it's not enough. Nevermind. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:24, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång Right. It's well put together and clearly focused on him rather than the conflict as a whole, which is what most of the others seem to be lacking, but not exactly "independent of the subject". The other sources (at least the ones I've been able to read through) appear to fail the "significant coverage" requirement. There might be enough out there, there just wasn't enough evidence of it 3 weeks ago. VernoWhitney (talk) 13:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK so, I will preface this with the statement that I don't have any big interest in this figure, I added the Yiddish citations as a courtesy from a WikiProject post about it. My opinion is that he is probably notable enough. I haven't looked at the museum exhibit thing but the main printed source I found was the Melekh Noy one, it gives about 2 pages to his life and actions. The second one is probably the Borzykowski one, which was already used as a citation, I found it again in a (probably original) Yiddish text, and it's in English on Archive.org reprinted somewhere else too in a 1950s Jewish American publication. It just has one passage about him and some of his military exploits. And then a lot of the other Yiddish sources just mention him in one sentence while describing the Ghetto military resistance, usually saying he was a good marksman and how many germans he killed in a particular battle. The one other interesting thing was the Mark source that I added about the grenades. It actually says that he was only one of two resistance fighters who were able to produce grenades among the ghetto population. I suppose that should be added to the text.

Hm, well, this is more my opinion rather than wikipedia policy, but my feeling is holocaust victims should be considered more notable if they died young and come close to achieving notability, as part of a project of documenting the events of that era and making sources about those victims more available. But again, just my opinion. Anyhow there may be other sources out there and let me know if I can be of assistance somehow. Dan Carkner (talk) 14:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Dan Carkner Since I don't know Yiddish, could you please just confirm that the the Melekh Noy book is independent/reliable and not just a straight reprinting of material submitted by others? VernoWhitney (talk) 14:28, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fwiw, it seems to be a Yiddish Book Center book. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:35, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that doesn't clear it up for me at all. VernoWhitney (talk) 15:16, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know about Noy before, but the author of this draft posted in another thread this link about him. My impression is that this type of book can be considered a reliable source; collected accounts synthesized into a kind of list of biographies or lexicons. These various Lexicons or Yizkor books or other types of memorial books were quite common in Yiddish and Hebrew after the holocaust. Edit to add: I believe this is more of Noy's own writing than simply texts submitted by other and reprinted. Given that he published a few original books about related topics to this. If it's a sticking point I can definitely investigate more. Dan Carkner (talk) 15:38, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per your description, I think this subject could be arguably fit for mainspace per Warsaw Ghetto Museum and Melekh Noy, but one or two more solid ones wouldn't hurt. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:38, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Titles of references

Many non-English titles, not that there's anything wrong with that. But an added translated title could be helpful for readers, there's a parameter for that, trans-title [1]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]