Talk:Xu Liang
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Requested move 13 May 2015
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus is clear the politician is the primary topic over the footballer and, as we don't disambiguate against potential future articles, there's no need to leave a dab page at the base location. This can be revisited should an article ever be created for the CPPCC member. Wade-Giles v pinyin can be the topic of a new RM if necessary, but there was no consensus to change it in this discussion. Jenks24 (talk) 01:26, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
– The politician as a historical person who was born in the Qing dynasty, educated in Japan and the USA, became an official under the nationalist government and then defected to the Japan-friendly government, arrested and sentenced to death by the nationalist government and eventually executed by the communist government, has more long-term significance than the footballer. Even if it's not considered a primary topic, it should be moved to Xu Liang (politician), because first of all ROC as a disambiguator is quite ambiguous, and secondly this man's career is more notable for working for the Japan-friendly government for 5 years when ROC was warring with Japan. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 18:40, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Timmyshin (talk) 00:03, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
- Support. As long as he is labeled "ROC", readers will wonder if he is some sort of anti-wrinkle cream.[1] Even the minority of readers who know that "ROC" refers to the Republic of China might not associate this term with the pro-Japanese Wang Jingwei regime, which was a rival to Chiang Kai-shek's ROC. Fernando Danger (talk) 12:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- Comment at the very least the standard disambiguator is "politician" so Xu Liang (politician) or Xu Liang (diplomat) should be used. However since this is a politician and diplomat of the ROC, he should be using Wade-Giles and not pinyin, since the government that uses hanyu pinyin executed him, while he served with the ROC it used Wade-Giles, so his name should be Hsu Liang -- 65.94.43.89 (talk) 04:19, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- I never heard of transliterating different eras according to different systems. Wade-Giles was never an official ROC system. Neither "Chiang Kai-shek" nor "Sun Yat-sen" are Wade-Giles spellings. What transliteration system should we use for imperial officials who lived before both Pinyin and Wade-Giles? Fernando Danger (talk) 12:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- The general practice at Wikipedia has been to use pinyin for personal names (including ROC figures) per WP:PINYIN except for people notable for activities in Taiwan (where pinyin has yet to be retroactively applied to personal names). This usage tends to be reflected in post-1980 sources. — AjaxSmack 23:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- Can anyone shed any light on what he was called in contemporary English sources, and what name is used in modern English sources?--KTo288 (talk) 11:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- The spelling of Wang Jingwei's name switched from Wade-Giles to Pinyin sometime in the early 1990s.[2] This name probably did the same, although usage was never frequent enough to allow it to chart. Fernando Danger (talk) 14:01, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- Can anyone shed any light on what he was called in contemporary English sources, and what name is used in modern English sources?--KTo288 (talk) 11:46, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
- The general practice at Wikipedia has been to use pinyin for personal names (including ROC figures) per WP:PINYIN except for people notable for activities in Taiwan (where pinyin has yet to be retroactively applied to personal names). This usage tends to be reflected in post-1980 sources. — AjaxSmack 23:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- I never heard of transliterating different eras according to different systems. Wade-Giles was never an official ROC system. Neither "Chiang Kai-shek" nor "Sun Yat-sen" are Wade-Giles spellings. What transliteration system should we use for imperial officials who lived before both Pinyin and Wade-Giles? Fernando Danger (talk) 12:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
- Support both moves per nom. — AjaxSmack 23:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
- Support a rename with slightly different targets, no previously established fame with or notoriety with Hsu Liang to take that route. zh Wikipedia has at least three other articles for people whose names would be transliterated as Xu Liang. Two others at zh:徐良 and zh:徐亮 (医生), a member of the CPPCC, so I would recommend avoiding Xu Liang (politician) in favour of Xu Liang (diplomat), making Xu Liang to Xu Liang (footballer) move and keeping Xu Liang free as a future disambiguation.--KTo288 (talk) 17:12, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.