Talk:Women in the Israel Defense Forces

Women singing and religious soldiers

It seems to me that the entire affair has less to do with female soldiers than with religious male soldiers... this section would fit much better in a "Judaism in the IDF" or "Separation of religion and state in the IDF" or anything of the like. The only thing that relates specifically to female soldiers is the part about Simchat Torah (a single sentence), which has nothing to do with singing. Therefore I suggest removing the bulk of the text and changing the title to "separation of genders on religious grounds". I think I'd remove it myself in 48hrs if there's no objection, and meanwhile I'll try to bring forward the said "Separation" article. PluniAlmoni (talk) 16:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

While I agree that this is more about the reactions than what the female soldiers are doing. It is about how the are reacting to not being catered to, but it does impact the female soldiers as well. These women were singled out and othered. I think that it may need reworded to something like Haredi reactions to Women soldiers. Haakonsson (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Women singing and religious soldiers

I agree that this was quite irrelevant to the rest of the article. The article is supposed to discuss women in the IDF, not an instance where people were upset about others not following Judaism within the Israeli army. I personally believe this creates a bit of a distraction at the end of the article where readers are not left with an image and understanding of women in the IDF, rather they are left with thoughts on Judaism within the Israeli army and religious politics in Israel. Rachohay (talk) 01:49, 17 September 2018 (UTC)Rachel Ohayon

Slate-article, might have some good info

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/10/women_in_israel_as_the_idf_becomes_more_religious_the_rights_of_female_soldiers.html Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:17, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Female privileges

Its fun how this article are full of "gendr equalty" and "female empowerment" stuff, but doesnt say a word that women are required to serve only two years, do not participate in the reserve service and about a third of women avoid conscription. Feminism at its best. Akerlea Velázquez (talk) 09:59, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Can we remove, like half the images?

It is extremely distracting that every paragraph has an image beside it, and then near the bottom of the article there is the gallery and then one image on the left and right. Also this. ShimonChai (talk) 23:40, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

@ShimonChai: I have removed some of the images I thought were unhelpful and did not contribute to the article. There might be a few more but it requires a bit more organization. Which images do you want to remove that are still there? —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 10:20, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

How many % are exempt? And other essentials masked by pretty & deceiving photos.

"As of 1991, sixty–five percent of Israeli women were serving in the army, 25 percent opting out on religious grounds, and the remainder being exempted for physical, emotional or marital reasons."

Totally implausible. The source is only accessible in tiny snippets, I cannot read the context. The snippet does indeed say "Israeli girls" (not women, thou post-1991 PC feminists!), but probably means: "Israeli 'JEWISH girls", as the almost 20% Israeli Arab women don't seem to be part of any figure here at all – unless the 25% exempt "on religious grounds" include the 20% Arab Muslims and Christians, which is

• A) a somewhat unusual way to put it, as being Arab probably is the primary reason, not religion (ethnoreligious group is the term); and
• B) totally improbable, considering the high number of Jewish religious girls exempt, most likely far more than the remaining 5% (25-20=5), as haredi alone would have been around 7-8% in 1991, and lots of Modern Orthodox/National Religious girls opting for civil national service (see this 2009 article from The Forward mentioning those; btw, it writes about an equally implausible 36% of all Israeli women (!) being exempt after declaring themselves as Jewish religious. That would only leave some 45% of Israeli women putting on the uniform in the 90s, considering the c. 20% Arab women).

The book was published 30 years ago, being (like like many sources used for this article) very old. The numbers must have changed substantially, as has in part the terminology. The religious and the Arab population segments have grown hugely since 1991 in relation to the overall population. Readiness to serve has apparently decreased. In essence, the article does not give even a close estimate of how many % of Israeli, and how many % of Jewish Israeli girls are exempt today.

The issue is buried far down in the article, while it should be in the lead. If placed there together with the (also somewhat out of date) info that "In 2014....fewer than 4% of women are in combat positions", it would offer the user a sense of the real figures. Soldiers monitoring CCTV cameras, analysing aerial photos, drill instructors, etc., etc., are every bit as essential nowadays as combatants, that's not the point; the point is to offer a correct sense of reality, which is light years away from the impression created by the 18 (!) photos of combat-unit or other shooting girl soldiers selected by "Next Top Model" contest criteria. Somebody misunderstood everything about the topic here - is it the IDF's PR office, the same people who arranged for the 2007 MAXIM photo shoot of "IDF beauties"? The IDF is not about "Hizballah, Hamas, Iran: drop dead, we're gorgeous!" Lebanese and Persian girls are winning their fair share of beauty pageants, but that's again not the point. Arminden (talk) 16:50, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

URL no longer active for reference 27

http://www.aka.idf.il/giyus/general/?catid=12943&docid=30365 Deftmousetrap (talk) 13:45, 16 March 2024 (UTC)