Talk:Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory/Archive 4

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Archive 4

Adaptations

I find it very strange that there would be a mention of the 2017 Tom and Jerry adaptation on this page, and no mention of the 2005 adaptation (not counting the redirect at the top of the page.) It was probably just an innocent omission, but it feels like favoritism. I'd suggest changing the "Animated Adaptation" section to "Adaptations" and adding a sentence about the 2005 version. Jmgariepy (talk) 07:00, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

The 2005 movie is not based on this movie, it is based on the novel. - SummerPhD^v2.0 13:12, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Precisely. Thank you, SummerPhDv2.0. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 14:14, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

All three works are based on the original novel, and you would be hard pressed to say that the 2005 movie took zero inspiration from the 1971 version of the movie. To take an example from Wikipedia, Superman (1978) mentions both Superman Returns and Man of Steel in a section titled Legacy. Even though both of those movies take the bulk of their work from the original comics and very little from the original Superman series, the original Superman movie cites these two movies as a continuation of its legacy. Encyclopedia articles don't just mention the inspiration for their work, they mention the things they inspire as well. Jmgariepy (talk) 04:57, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

What another WP article talks about is irrelevant. If you want to claim that the 2005 film is an adaptation of this film, you will need a source. There's no reason to mention it just because they are both based on the same source material. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 12:56, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

I would be hard pressed to say a lot of things that the article does not say.

The sources say this movie and the 2005 movie are based on the novel, which is undoubtedly true and the respective articles say that. The sources do not list other inspirations and neither do we. I'd be shocked if there aren't dozens of films that inspired various aspects of every major film. We can't speculate in Wikipedia articles. That's what Intro to Film 101 is for. - SummerPhD^v2.0 23:34, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

It seems that everyone is heavily focused on the fact that I made the mistake of using the word 'adaptation' beforehand, and is trying to argue why this isn't an adaptation. So let me back up a step. Charlie is not an adaptation of Willy Wonka. I'm not claiming that's the case, so there's no need to argue against it. I'm rather sorry I even mentioned the fact that there's bound to be some sort of inspirational crossover, because it got everyone talking about the wrong thing. For the sake of this discussion, feel free to pretend that I don't believe any inspirational crossover exists between the two movies, because whether it does or not has no bearing on the thrust of my argument.

What I am arguing is that many, many pages on Wikipedia have a Legacy section. In the World War I page, they talk about World War II. On the Pet Sounds page, they talk about the Beatles. The best example of a movie that has nothing to do with the movie that came before it is Heavy Metal and Heavy Metal 2000. I checked, and Heavy Metal has has a Legacy section that mentions Heavy Metal 2000. If you don't know Heavy Metal, the Superman analogy from before still stands, though.

Legacy isn't always about direct homages. Sometimes the legacy of a work inspires a person to do the exact opposite thing, like how the Dahl estate was upset with the original Willy Wonka movie, and was eager to do a movie that was more of a direct translation to the book. Saying "Well just because other pages do it, doesn't mean we have to do it" isn't an argument against adding a Legacy section. It doesn't answer the question: "Is it appropriate for *this* page to have this section." Maybe it isn't. But, in my opinion, adding a sentence and a redirect better adds to the conversation about this movie, as opposed to takes away from it.

Jmgariepy (talk) 02:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

The short answer: What do independent reliable sources say? - SummerPhD^v2.0 03:55, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

You will have to excuse me. I'm not being contrarian here, I'm just not sure what you're referring to. What do independent reliable sources say about what, exactly? I don't think you're asking for proof that the two movies were both based on the same book. Are you asking me to cite that the Dahl estate didn't like the first movie, and was on board for making another one? Technically, I could just use the same sources that are on the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Wikipedia page to support that assertion. One could also use that same page to prove that a number of actors and directors were interested in Charlie because of Willy Wonka. Those are two ways in which Wonka eventually lead to the making of Charlie.

But really, I wasn't arguing to copy and paste this information from the Charlie page here. People can read about that stuff on the Charlie page. I was just arguing that there should be a one sentence throwaway so that people who were reading this page could be made aware that a remake existed. Jmgariepy (talk) 12:13, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'm following you? The very top of the article mentions the 2005 film adaptation, in case a reader is looking for that film rather than this one. Could you provide an example of what you might like inserted? DonIago (talk) 17:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Edited girls nationality out

I edited out Veruca and Violet's nationalities as the article was reading "the spoiled American Veruca Salt (Julie Dawn Cole), the gum-chewing British Violet Beauregarde (Denise Nickerson)". Their nationalities were not correct. Violet is an American, not a Brit. The scene in which she is introduced specifically states that Violet is from Miles City, Montana. This is brought up again when on the day the winners finally get to tour the chocolate factory Violet's father is telling the television audeiance to come by his car dealership if their ever in Miles City. Aside from the fact that Veruca and her father both speak with a British accent, some of the terms used by them also suggest their British. Her father, in the scene that introduces the characters, uses a distinctively British use of the word bleeding when he tells Veruca he has "every girl in the bleeding staff hunting for ya" to find the golden ticket. He also offers a one POUND bonus for finding the ticket, where as an American would offer a one DOLLAR bonus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18B:300:BE78:DDC5:86E5:EFB0:5C1C (talk) 06:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Peter Stuart

Delinked Peter Stuart for the third time, added a See note on his page ... any idea how to stop this happening? MartinSFSA (talk) 07:40, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I added an inline note here saying that he shouldn't be linked. DonIago (talk) 13:42, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Actually, I've removed him from the Cast; why was he even listed without a role? DonIago (talk) 13:46, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Michael Bollner page

I posted this before but it got deleted, but all links to Michael Bollner's nonexistent article redirect here. Isn't it about time this guy got his own page? There are plenty of actors who have done one/few movies, only had small parts, etc. who do have their own page, Peter Ostrum himself being a good example. The small pieces of information we have on Michael Bollner are enough to form a few paragraphs at least. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.20.80 (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Location

Even though the plot says in a small town, Charlie would be near Chicago Illinois. After he bought his winning bar, he walked passed a news stand with the daily chronicle. That is the news paper for DeKalb County Illinois right next to Chicago which is written on the back of the Wonka bar.

https://i.imgur.com/RkKcFWt.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wBbbhVk.png

Not sure if it is note worthy or not but just putting it out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rob mc 1 (talk • contribs) 07:50, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Distribution

I'm starting a discussion to discuss the status of distribution rights of this film. The film rights to Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory are currently held by Warner Bros. Pictures, which were acquired after both the original distributor Paramount Pictures allowed their distribution rights to expire following the film's original release, and when producer David L. Wolper sold his production company to Warners. This is important to note within the scope of the article, preferably as a footnote in the infobox, because the current appearance of the article may inaccurately suggest to readers that Paramount owns any rights to the film, which they presently do not. Theatrical reissues, for instance have been distributed by Warners. Warners is also the distributor for the 2005 remake and presently the owner for the intellectual property film rights to the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory franchise, so such an inclusion here is also relevant. There are many other film articles across Wikipedia that include information regarding changes in distribution rights to films following their original release. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 20:58, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

The other children

Although the fates of the other children are not shown, Charlie asks Wonka what will happen to them; Wonka says that they will be all right but hopefully "a little bit wiser for the wear". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.5.122.1 (talk) 21:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Veruca Salt, the band?

Insert cultural reference for Veruca Salt, the band? https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Veruca_Salt Gprobins (talk) 17:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Why? The band is named after the character in the book, not specifically this film. DonIago (talk) 23:35, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

The identity of the auctioneer

The article claims that the American actor Frank Delfino played the part of the British auctioneer. Problem is, Photographs of Delfino don't really look like the auctioneer in the film, and it would make little sense to hire an American actor to play a British character. Furthermore, unlike Delfino, the auctioneer does not exactly seem to have a short stature (though I could be wrong, as you can't really get a good look at the auctioneer's height. Unless it is actually a different actor with the name Frank Delfino, I doubt that information is correct. A Clockwork Potato (talk) 04:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

IMDb, while not entirely reliable, does list Delfino for that role. Do you have a source that lists someone else? DonIago (talk) 05:15, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have a source that lists someone else. I just don't understand why Delfino is listed, since he does not facially resemble the auctioneer, as well as the fact that Delfino was American and the auctioneer has a British accent and mentions the United Kingdom, uses the term "pounds" and "your majesty" in the scene. However, when I try to search for Delfino the search results are swarmed with an unrelated fictional character from the TV Show How to Get Away with Murder and the only photographs I have seen of the actor Delfino are low quality. But I can still see obvious facial differences. By the way, Delfino's article does not list Willy Wonka in his filmography, which makes me further doubtful that he played the auctioneer.

Perhaps the actual actor that played the part of the auctioneer is just simply unknown. A Clockwork Potato (talk) 11:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Carolina2k22 (talk · contribs) (re-)added in Delfino and multiple other cast members with this edit but did not note that several of them are uncredited (at least according to IMDb) and as such, reliable sources should be provided. As such, I will update the appropriate cast members and request citations. DonIago (talk) 14:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

On reflection then, they may very well have not played any part at all. It might be a good idea for someone to have a bit more of a look into it, and if nothing can be found after a few weeks then potentially removing them from the article would be the best course of action. Carolina2k22 • (talk) • (edits) 20:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)