Talk:Jelani Cobb

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Requested move 3 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a rough consensus that the proposed title is the common name. Jenks24 (talk) 06:41, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

William Jelani Cobb → Jelani Cobb – WP:COMMONNAME [1] Jelani Cobb on Rachel Dolezal: “This Person is Not Black" [2] Mark Schierbecker (talk) 00:51, 3 January 2016 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 05:19, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. Sources appear mixed on the use of William or Jelani, and even one of his own published works [3] appears to use William. Without clear, consistent use of Jelani sans Willian, I am opposed to this move. Tiggerjay (talk) 05:01, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see this as mixed at all. Just pulling from the past two months: [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 08:00, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, let me clarify, the inline references use in the article itself... In order as used on the page: (1) Biography at Encyclopedia.com shows full name ; (3) and (4) which are his published work also used William. The only use of Jelani, sans William -- again from inline references is from The New Yorker. It appears all gbook results include William, so that would suggest what he would prefer to go by. As stated, with mixed results, with news versus book results, shows mixed use. Tiggerjay (talk) 02:18, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter what he prefers. Those are primary sources. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 05:13, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

What matter is WP:COMMONNAME and what we have here is a lot of mixed primary and secondary reliable sources, as well as a handful of technically-non-RS, that simply support very inconsistent use of William. As such, generally these things should stay where they are. Without consistency on the use of name, the default is to keep where it currently is and has always been (aside from the minor naming contention correction at time of creation). Here are a few reliable sources using William: Politico The Nation The Root Washington Times CNN-- and while not technically considered proper sources, they are primary and indicate to some degree the common name of the individual: Facebook & Linked In. I will admit that Twitter has the shorter name, as does his linkedIn short-url. Again, I'm not suggesting that William is the most common name, but rather it is extremely mixed from reliable sources, including primary and secondary, as well as in other media. Youtube, also not specifically reliable, but it also shows about 50/50 use between the names. As such, I simply do not see enough information to establish, to any degree of certainty that the common name is Jelani Cobb -- it is used, yes; is it commonly used, yes; is it the most common, uncertain. Tiggerjay (talk) 17:32, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you cherry-pick and do a Google Search for "William Jelani Cobb," yes, you can find sources doing that. From my own search of "Jelani Cobb," I'm not seeing anything remotely approaching 50/50. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 20:38, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No cherry-picking necessary. "William Jelani Cobb" is 46k results, "Jelani Cobb" -william is about 43k results just Jelani Cobb of the first 20 results 9 of them use William. Plus virtually all of gbooks are William. But then on gnews it goes the other direction. Seems pretty clear cut that there is no common name here. What we need to see is something more akin to William Clinton versus Bill Clinton -- there we see clear common name use of Bill, google for Bill is 26m versus 267k William (100x more common) - Books 300k Bill, 121k William -- over 2x more common)... But here, what I see from a cursory review is that it is 50/50 on Commonname. Even the subject shows very mixed use of his own name in primary sources. Tiggerjay (talk) 01:18, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relying on Google search results is NOT a reliable way to determine popularity. A Google search for "The Green goldfish" in quotes initially says their are about 2110 returns. But if you click through them there are actually only about 60. Mark Schierbecker (talk) 06:06, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have presented my reasons for the oppose. We have discussed this at length enough and I'll let my position on this matter stand. At this time I see no point in continuing this discussion. Perhaps other editors will jump in on their perspectives on this matter. The longer this discussion between us becomes, the less likely others will want to be come involved. Tiggerjay (talk) 16:30, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support. In Google News, it appears that sources without "William"[9] are more common than those with it.[10]--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:11, 20 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Citations in Publications Section

The paragraph on Harold Cruse has no citations whatsoever and has very informal language (ie, "instantly enhanced Cobb's statue", "to grossly oversimplify the matter") that does not seem appropriate for the style of a BLP. I would suggest for this section to be edited. ChunyangD (talk) 04:26, 25 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bibliography

I have started a Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 03:48, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Guest appearance in "Luke Cage"

Jelani Cobb has a guest appearance as himself in the 13th episode of the second season of the Netflix series "Luke Cage". I am not sure where in the article one could add this piece of information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 3aFW (talk • contribs) 15:50, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 3aFW--do you have a reliable secondary source that discusses this? If so, that would help guide us on how to incorporate it into the entry. If there's no secondary source discussing it, that can be a sign it's not significant enough to include. We could definitely add an external links section with a link to his IMDb page tho--I'll do that now. Innisfree987 (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Innisfree987 thanks! I think that should do it. However, the link to his IMDB page seemed to be broken (I've changed it from type "title" to "name", now it should work.(3aFW (talk) 20:51, 20 September 2018 (UTC)).[reply]

Appearance on Morning Joe on MSNBC July 2022

Is this the first appearance? Wikipietime (talk) 12:22, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]