Talk:William C. Roberts (pastor)

William C. Roberts (pastor) has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 16, 2024. (Reviewed version).

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Education Low‑importance

	Education portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EducationWikipedia:WikiProject EducationTemplate:WikiProject Educationeducation
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wales Low‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Kentucky / 50,000 Challenge Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Kentucky portal This article is supported by WikiProject Kentucky (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article was created or improved during this WikiProject's 50,000 Challenge, which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing. You can help!

Illinois Low‑importance

	Illinois portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Illinois, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Illinois on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IllinoisWikipedia:WikiProject IllinoisTemplate:WikiProject IllinoisWikiProject Illinois
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Higher education

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Higher education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of higher education, universities, and colleges on Wikipedia. Please visit the project page to join the discussion, and see the project's article guideline for useful advice.Higher educationWikipedia:WikiProject Higher educationTemplate:WikiProject Higher educationHigher education

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 11:22, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Centre College president William C. Roberts oversaw the school's consolidation with another institution to become Central University of Kentucky? Source: https://sc.centre.edu/ency/c/central.html and https://sc.centre.edu/ency/r/roberts.html
- ALT1: ... that William C. Roberts had to resign a pastorate in Columbus, Ohio, because his wife's illness was said to be "incurable" unless she returned to her home state of New Jersey? Source: https://www.newspapers.com/article/daily-ohio-statesman/158933923/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/David Headley Green

Moved to mainspace by PCN02WPS (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 81 past nominations.

PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 00:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Hi PCN02WPS, review follows: article moved to mainspace on 17 November and far exceeds minimum length; article is well written and cited inline throughout to what look to be reliable sources; I didn't find any issue with overly close paraphrasing in a spotcheck on sources; hook facts are interesting, mentioned in the article and check out to sources cited; a QPQ has been carried out. Looks fine to me - Dumelow (talk) 09:45, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

Passed. It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:26, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:William C. Roberts (pastor)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: PCN02WPS (talk · contribs) 00:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @PCN02WPS, review is below. I thought this was very well written! It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@It is a wonderful world thanks for the kind words and for the review! Everything has been taken care of or responded to. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @PCN02WPS, I am happy with all your changes and/or justifications. Passing now, have a great Christmas! It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:25, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prose (Criteria 1a, 1b, 4) clock

Lead

I think the "couple were forced" is a bit strong here. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, changed to "couple were advised". PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early life and education

Looks good :)

Career

First Presbyterian Church can be linked to Old First Presbyterian Church (Wilmington, Delaware) I think. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found that while researching but opted not to link it because that church remained a house of worship until 1840 while Roberts preached in Wilmington starting in 1858. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would guess the Old Presbyterian Church in Ohio would be notable enough for a redlink, since it claims to be the oldest church in Columbus. I don't know where sourcing could be found though. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linked it for now, I went with Old First Presbyterian Church (Columbus, Ohio). PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest linking "Presbyterian Board of Missions" It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linked. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The biggest change Roberts oversaw at Centre: Opinion stated as a fact (WP:NPOV: "Avoid stating opinions as facts"). I suggest attributing. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was taken more from me than from any source in particular so I changed the wording of this part along with an addition from the end of the paragraph. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The biggest change Roberts oversaw at Centre was the school's consolidation with Central University, located in Richmond, Kentucky.: This sentence is a nice summary, but in my opinion it messes with the strict chronology that has been followed up to this point, which makes the text confusing to follow. I suggest moving this opinion to after the consolidation has been described or to the end of the paragraph. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My only issue with moving this sentence to the end is that the whole paragraph is about consolidation, so moving this sentence would mean the article would start talking about Central with no context or no apparent reason as to why until the reader kept reading. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is a fine justification. It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:20, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From its outset, Central [had] faced problems with finances and enrollment, both of which [had] worsened with time: Indicated grammatically that this was pre-consolidation. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done both. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are "Southern Presbyterian Synod" and "Central Alumni Association" notable enough for a redlink? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Central Alumni Association would not be, since even Centre's alumni association doesn't have an article (and Central existed for a much shorter period of time), but Southern Presbyterian Synod might be, I just can't find whether that was its actual name at the time. There was a United Synod of the South which was part of the PCUS, who had jurisdiction over Central pre-consolidation. I could also link Presbyterian polity, the general article about divisions of governance in Presbyterianism more broadly if you think that would be more appropriate. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should remain unlinked if not independently notable. It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:19, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should be included that the "Central University of Kentucky" later changed its name back to Centre College. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added this at the end of the paragraph, and moved the stuff about improving campus to the start. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest linking "Danville" It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

received credit: From whom? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed this wording when I moved this bit to the beginning of the last paragraph. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life and death

The couple had a daughter, Margaret, who died in infancy on August 12, 1864, in addition to two other children who lived to adulthood: It seems a little weird only mentioning the name of one of the children. Maybe omit it? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, removed her name and made that sentence sound a little better. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 02:57, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources clock

Health/formatting (Criterion 2a) Y

Well formatted, no dead links

Reliability (Criterion 2b) Y

A few sources are published by Centre themselves, but the claims they supports are not exceptional so I see no issues using them.

The other sources are all newspapers.

Spot check (Criteria 2b, 2c, 2d) clock

[2a]: Y

[3]: Doesn't "next Sunday" mean it would be the week later? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The way I interpreted it was that "Roberts will preach his farewell sermon...on next Sunday morning" was the announcement that was made "last Sabbath morning", meaning the announcement was made on Sunday, October 19, about what was going to happen "next Sunday morning", the 26th. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see, that is probably correct. It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:22, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[2b]: Y

[5b, 6a]: I'm not quite sure where you got "November or December" from? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I recall, it was a sort of deduction I made from what I could get out of the sources, but I can't work out exactly how I got there so I changed that to "late 1864". PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:04, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[6d, 11a]: Y

[19a]: Y

[19b, 20]: Y

Copyvio (Criterion 2d) clock

Earwig finds nothing, I will check further on the spot check.

Scope (Criteria 3a, 3b) Y

Classic biography, I don't see any important omissions.

Stable (Criterion 5) Y

Media clock

Minor quibble: the date of the image on commons says 1903, while the caption of the image says circa 1903. Should the one on commons be changed to circa too? It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discrepancy there is that the photo is taken from the 1903 Centre yearbook, meaning it was published in 1903, but I'm not sure exactly when the photo was taken (whether they took their yearbook photos in fall 1902 or spring 1903 before publishing the yearbook). PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tags (Criterion 6a) Y

Captions (Criterion 6b) Y

Suggestions (not needed for GA promotion)

Note 1 has a MOS:LQ mistake. It is a wonderful world (talk) 02:01, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My impression was that the full stop should go outside in this case even though the end of the sentence and the end of the quote are the same, based on this: If the quotation is a single word or a sentence fragment, place the terminal punctuation outside the closing quotation mark. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 03:07, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, yes, you are correct. It is a wonderful world (talk) 03:24, 16 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.