Talk:West Loch disaster

A fact from West Loch disaster appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 23 April 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the hulk of LST-480 (pictured) is the only remaining evidence of the West Loch Disaster, the second tragedy to befall Pearl Harbor during World War II?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/April.

Wikipedia

Military history: Maritime / North America / United States / World War II C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Maritime warfare task force
	North American military history task force
	United States military history task force
	World War II task force

Ships

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ships, a project to improve all Ship-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other articles, please join the project, or contribute to the project discussion. All interested editors are welcome. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.ShipsWikipedia:WikiProject ShipsTemplate:WikiProject ShipsShips articles

Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hawaii

	Hawaii portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hawaii, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hawaii on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HawaiiWikipedia:WikiProject HawaiiTemplate:WikiProject HawaiiHawaii articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Why Top Secret for so long?

The article should state why the accident was classified Top Secret until 1960. From whom was the US keeping the news? Comet Tuttle (talk) 20:03, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

IIRC Somewhere in the sources it is claimed that one reason was to prevent the Japanese learning of the invasion plans. And I guess, once something is classified, it stays so for a standard period of time. It does also say somewhere that more information was released after the attack. MickMacNee (talk) 22:02, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The military has a long history of hushing up or suppressing details of events that could either a.) assist enemies from assessing combat results or b.) military systems development. Also, the effect on morale has sometimes been a consideration. If memory serves, the details of the airships Akron and Macon were not declassified until many decades after they had ceased to be viable weapon systems. Someone has to take the trouble to instigate for, and take responsibility for, the declassification process. In some cases, this does not happen for extended periods. And in some cases, it is a result of the brass simply trying to obscure their own culpability for poor decisions that could negatively reflect on their own careers.

Also, communities with large military presences and/or payrolls may be quietly complicit in NOT publicizing military developments and events that they may share some benefits from, even if they are locally known. My own research into military aircraft accidents has shown that the local press in northwest Florida ceased to mention any crashes from ~1943 until 1946, despite the large number of accidents that occurred at/around Eglin Field in that period. Also, outside of a single reference in Chuck Hansen's "The Swords of Armegeddon", quoting an item in the 7th Bomb Wing Association's History of the B-36 at Carswell Air Force Base, when a Carswell Peacemaker accidentally dropped an unarmed (non-fissile) obsolete nuclear gravity bomb in the summer of 1951 while on the IP to an Eglin water range due to a corroded D-2 bomb release switch, I have found NO local press account of the event, even though the HE in the weapon exploded over/on a non-target location. I know - I have looked - and it is NOT there. Mark Sublette (talk) 22:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)Mark SubletteMark Sublette (talk) 22:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ludicrous Assertion Keeps Popping Up

A ludicrous assertion has been made in this article, and that is that the reason that the West Loch Disaster is not as famous as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is that it was kept secret for so long. OOOOk. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor resulted in more than 2,000 deaths of American military personnel, for West Loch, 400 seems about tops. More than that, the attack on Pearl Harbor sank several important American Military Vessels, including at least one battleship. West Loch disaster, the craft destroyed were relatively lightly armed landing craft. More than that, the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor brought the United States into World War II, as Franklin D. Roosevelt stated, "this is a day that will live in infamy.

I'm going to fix it again. Don't change it back. Unless you have some legitimate counter arguments, of course. If so, reply here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.227.156 (talk) 04:14, 24 April 2010

I really do very much encourage more commentary on this. Surely, some other editors must have a perspective about this. So please jump in. I'm open to all perspectives.Tesint (talk) 22:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My perspective is that a) that it is sourced, b) that the assertion that it is not true is original research at best, pure POV at worst, c) I think it is wholly absurd that anybody could think that something being classified top secret for 15 years would not have an effect on how well known it was. It should be self-evident to anybody who has done any research on the topic, that the level of coverage out there is a fraction of what you would expect for a disaster of such magnitude, and d) it can maybe be reworded to more accurately reflect what the source(s) say, but other than that, it's staying - edit warring to remove it will not be tolerated, as should be clear by now with it being reinserted by multiple people. If the IP persists in screwing with the page, I'll simply request semi-protection, and/or a block of the IP for edit warring to remove sourced content. MickMacNee (talk) 23:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the wording so the secrecy is "in part" responsible for how little known the incident is compared to the other disaster. Obviously the secrecy is not the only reason for its lack of infamy Diannaa ^TALK 03:40, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where is "West Loch"?

I cannot find anywhere that specifically identifies the west loch. Someone please do. --Flightsoffancy (talk) 18:45, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After some poking around, I think I found it, at least the wrecked LST http://maps.google.com/maps?q=oahu+google+map&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Pearl+City,+Honolulu,+Hawaii&gl=us&ei=dqSbTOSYDoWKlweLgp3DCg&ved=0CBgQ8gEwAA&ll=21.357149,-157.996764&spn=0.002006,0.003774&t=h&z=19

Can someone make a wiki approved map? (I have other pressing matters) --Flightsoffancy (talk) 19:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some wreckage still visible today

The remnants of LST-353 are still visible today. See Google Earth 21 21'25.90"N 157 59'49.71"W 121.216.97.224 (talk) 11:46, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]