Talk:Wenche Myhre

Removal, then replacement of image

thumb|75px thumb|75px It was hard for me to understand how the removal of a 2015 image with Ms. Myhre, her husband and his first director (1975) can be motivated with "not necessary", so I reinstated it.

The same removal editor then replaced it with a photo of Ms. Myhre's husband, motivated with "revert self promo of Lars Jacob SergeWoodzing" - ?? .

It would seem unusual in any biographical article on Wikipedia to have a solo portrait of one of the subject's spouses, even more so if it replaced a photo of the subject herself with that husband and another relevant person. That 2nd image was later removed by another editor.

As advised here, I am reinstating the first image again, with sincere hopes, for all our sakes, that ongoing shenanigans at Commons, originating out of many years of dogged controversy at Swedish Wikipedia, will not now continue to spill over to English Wikipedia. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 06:55, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

The article is about Wenche Myhre, not about her husband or the third person. There is a separate article about her husband, so if we add more images they should be photos of her (not of groups of people of which she is one) or photos of proper events in which she has participated. - Tournesol (talk) 09:29, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm sincerely very sorry to say, that all of what follows is relevant, in my opinion, to whether or not it is in the best interest of this article, and English Wikipedia, to remove the image in question, especially with the ulterior background and consequent motives used to do so.

An important principle is involved.

Another Swedish Wikipedian now has paid us a rare visit to remove some images and call the extracted director "some other dude", which says a lot about the disrespectful, not to say confrontational, attitude of the Swedish Wikipedians involved here so far. There's quite a bit of international recruiting currently going on at svWP.

There have also now been a full 8 (eight) years of on-again-off-again animosity and belligerence like this albeit normally only on Swedish Wikipedia, during often rekindled flames of controversy there aimed at suppressing even the most obviously relevant info about three individuals: this director, his producer Emil Eikner and me. After a few years of calm work, increased cooperation and a bit more WP:GF toward me than I’ve been used to there, all hell broke loose (meaning yard-long chunks of typing infected arguments in which I participated very little), last fall when poor Swedish User:Pontuz, unknown to me and completely fair and neutral, tried to reintroduce a well sourced article of his own about the director. He wrote to me asking for scans of older references, but there was no other communication between us. In the midst of the huge bruhaha that resulted from his attempt, where the director again was called worse things than embarrassing litte slurs like "some other dude" (above), all the demeaning comments made on svWP about him and his career over the years were suddenly negated when Bonniers had famous and beloved Swedish entertainer Christer Lindarw come out with his memoirs, irrefutably crediting the director for his many years of trail-blazing entertainment work as a doldis (Swedish for a person who does not seek and does not acquire major celebrity).

That's when I was blocked there, again.

There are also several fair and gentlemanly/womanly Swedish Wikipedians, such as this one whose input there today I'd like to take the liberty of translating:

The caption explained clearly why the other person (who was not even mentioned by name) was relevant. I will not restore it [image of director and one of his documented ensemble members, in her article], because it seems to involve bad blood, but ask the Community: Is it reasonable that Lars Jacob's existence be hushed up for reasons of principle here on svWP when he has articles on other major language projects? A damnatio memoriae without equal. It's starting to resemble Stalin tactics.

A previous attempt, to discredit my English WP work with images, also emanated out of Swedish WP and failed.

User:Jkudlick asked a relevant question here today and I promised to address it on this page.

• This article, as many other articles, is under-illustrated, and there are no other relevant - free - images available.
• I really do try to provide only relevant images to articles, usually out of the Southerly Clubs' donations, regardless of whether or not I may know some of the people in them.
• We all make mistakes, and whenever consensus proves me wrong, I concede. In some such cases (which have been very few) I have removed images I've contributed, in others, captions have been rewritten through constructive, good faith team work, making kept images undeniably appropriate.
• Whenever there are more relevant images, and better quality ones, available from other sources, I always use them.
• The particular question discussed on this page centers on the article subject, Norwegian singer Wenche Myhre, her life partner, Swedish composer/conductor Anders Eljas, and their entertainment-business friend, underground cabaret director Lars Jacob. In 1975, Eljas began to work in Swedish entertainment in AlexCab where he met opera diva Kjerstin Dellert, which led to his continued career with ABBA and others. Both he and Dellert's son debuted in that show.
• Mr Eikner (above) took the photo when the three of them arrived (Eljas end Myhre from Oslo) for Mme Dellert's 90th birthday party, for which Eljas had assisted in creating a studio recording for Eikner with the birthday girl (at 89!) sung to lyrics she had ordered by the director. It was the first time the director met Ms Myhre, though they both had known of each other since the 1970s. Eikner says he remembers that Eljas wanted the director in the middle. It was a very happy moment, that meeting between 3 people whose life stories and show business work are naturally intertwined (not only on Wikipedia), but completely regardless of that, I assumed when I added the photo that its relevance and interest would be obvious to any fair observer. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 16:38, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm a WP:3O volunteer. I've declined this dispute due to lack of discussion (only from one side that is). However, such disputes (image relevance, minor MOS etc) in my opinion by definition cannot have a thorough discussion. Hence, I'm commenting here not as a 3O volunteer but as regular editor. I've haven't read much of the above discussion as it strikes me as issues of conduct. I'm posting here in hopes that the dispute gets resolved. Correct me if I've missed anything vital mentioned above.

There's a technical limit here. The page isn't under illustrated because of it's size. Ideally there's place for just one more image given its current length. More images can follow only if the page is expanded (and ideally, mention the relevance of the image) till then just put the {{commons}} template there as per the usual guidelines. I would choose the group image of her with Jacob and Ejas under one condition--the article doesn't currently mention Jacob links to her (no source available?), till that's done, this image too will not be relevant enough. I oppose Ejas solo pic since per the article, she was married twice and he only recently lives with her (WP:RECENTISM?) and his page already has the very same image. Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:42, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! I don't know what you may have missed, but you are right there is no source that I know of that substantiates a specific direct tie between Myhre and Jacob other than the existence of this photograph of him with his friend and band leader Eljas, who today is her partner since 2000. There are quite a few images of Eljas and Myhre to be found through Google, some of them are of the two of them together. If I could find a free one I'd add it in a heartbeat. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 15:38, 9 December 2016 (UTC)