Talk:Weekes

Move? (2009)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was moved back to Weekes --Aervanath (talk) 15:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't it just be at Weekes, as that is the common style for surname/disambiguation pages. Grsz¹¹_Review 00:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It was my impression that the predominant convention for lists of notable people with a particular surname (not dabs) was now List of people with surname X, which is why I was trying to move this page. This differentiates them from pages devoted to the name itself, e.g. Johnson - Wormcast (talk) 00:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From what I can tell, the overwhelming use is Name here or Name (surname) when disambiguation is needed, such as McLaren versus McLaren (surname). Grsz¹¹_Review 01:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Weekes, which now redirects to this page. Surnames are normally listed simply under the name, and not under List of xxx. Wormcast, could you provide a reference for your statement about names being listed under List of xxx? I have not seen that. •••Life of Riley (T–C) 01:05, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Continued discussion

Life of Riley asks {above} for a reference supporting the standard of pages such as this to be named "List of ..."; I see there is an entire wikiproject on this, WikiProject Anthroponymy which has established Standards stating in part to:

~~Articles: "…wikilink to a List of persons with the name Xxxx article."~~ Standards revised

In addition, MOS:LIST states:

“

List articles are encyclopedia pages consisting of a lead section followed by a list (which may or may not be divided by headings). The items on these lists include links to articles in a particular subject area, and may include additional information about the listed items. The titles of list articles typically begin with the type of list it is (List of, Index of, etc.), followed by the article's subject; like: List of vegetable oils. They can be organised alphabetically, by subject classification or by topics in a flat or hierarchical structure.

”

It looks like the standard is that lists are used, that this is one of them, and that MOS directs it should be named "List of…" as a matter of policy; further, Anthroponymy seems to direct the same as part of their guidlines. It's also rather inconsistent that List of people with surname Weeks links to an article entitled Weekes that contains nothing more than a List of people with surname Weekes.

Kind of late in the game to look at re-opening this, but this really should be moved to List of persons with the surname Weekes leaving the redirect from Weekes, and Weekes (surname); if nothing else, the standard does make it easier to search all the 10,112 articles entitled "List of people with surname Xxxx". — Who R you? Talk 12:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request Move to List of people with surname Weekes (2011)

Minor amendment of statements above and official Move Request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weekes → List of people with surname Weekes –

It seems that this discussion has led to clarification of policy at MOS:Disambiguation — Given names or surnames and guidelines at Anthroponymy — Standards regarding "List of people…" versus "List of persons…"; and that policy for naming pages such as this is "List of people with surname Xxxx"; but all policies definitely were and are clear, that a list only page, like the one here, should be entitled "List of people with surname Weekes" or an article should be created, covering the surname Weekes, it should be entitled "Weekes (surname)", and it should either contain or link to this list. But regardless, this article is currently incorrectly named according to all the policies and guidelines and it should be moved as indicated. — Who R you? Talk 05:17, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose any move. The current title is just fine per Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Standards. The standards set forth there use the Fittkau and Schnaufer pages as examples and both are list articles just like this one. According to MOS:DABNAME, "List of..." articles are only needed if a surname article and a list are to long to fit together in one article, clearly not an issue here. See Category:Surnames for hundreds of articles exactly like this one without "List of..." in the title. Since there is no ambiguity, there's no need for any move. — AjaxSmack 05:39, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support as this is my request, I should technically have supported it long ago. In response to AjaxSmack's reference to the Anthroponymy WPrj, I'd say that WP:Naming conventions (long lists), linked from Anth'y, more clearly highlights the guideline supporting the move.

While I appreciate your argument that there are many pages similar to Weekes, my WP:WEDGE argument is, numerous other inappropriately titled pages shouldn't prevent correction of this one.

It isn't that the page name is incorrect from the standpoint of reading the article and the title not agreeing with the contents; rather the issue relates to the other function which an article title serves, that of entry in the index (search) and the default description on wiki-links. Along with appearing at the top of the page, the title serves to provide an indication of what form and contents a reader should expect to find on a given page. In this case, the article entitled Weekes leads a reader to expect an article describing some noun known as Weekes, or perhaps explaining the etymology of the Weekes surname; although really, for the latter, the Anth'y guidelines at WPAPO:NOTE (quite logically) say that the name should then be Weekes (surname).

In other cases, the title Weeks redirects (not entirely unreasonably) to the singular noun article Week (it's tophatted with other uses Weeks (disambiguation) which contains Weeks (surname) and List of people with surname Weeks, as well as a piped link to a List of people with surname Weekes), Smith leads to a disambiguation which includes Smith (surname) and List of people with surname Smith. Cooper leads to a disambiguation page including Cooper (profession), Cooper (surname), and Cooper (given name). One might expect Cooper (surname) to lead to an article explaining the etymology of the Cooper family name, likely leading back to Cooper (profession); and Cooper (given name) to link to a sufficiently distinct article describing the different aspects of the etymology which led to Cooper as a given name; unfortunately, these are in fact List of… pages which seemed originally to be missing from the disambiguation page.

Article titles, along with determining the name at the top of the page and the browser's title-bar / tab name, dictate how the entry appears in this encyclopedia's index (the Search engine). Seeing no List of people with surname Cooper link on the disambiguation page, I searched "intitle:Cooper List" to add it to the disambiguation; but only three hits resulted and none of them led to the expected list of people surnamed Cooper, in reality that list exists under the article title Cooper (surname).

There are two types of information readers will seek: the encyclopedic explanation of the derivation of the name, its evolution, associated notable persons and historical significance, all referenced and verifiable, as in the Weeks (surname) article; or a concise page listing demonstrably notable people, linked to the appropriate articles, as with List of people with surname Weeks (and I note that it has been proposed [coincidently by AjaxSmack (talk · contribs)] that these two articles be merged).

If article naming is based on presenting information in the way readers are most likely to desire, seek and ultimately find something, in a quick, efficient, and easy form (with consideration to minimizing reader keystrokes, mouse interaction, and the sense of information overload), then, for proper names, this is best achieved by what the policies establish: separate each concept into a distinctly named article "Noun ", or "Proper noun (surname)" (and possibly "Proper noun (given name)") with either a section (if there are less than say 10 names), or a separate linked page (for 10 or more) entitled "List of people with the surname Proper noun ", and a disambiguation page where appropriate.

This page, is not about "Weekes", nor is it about the "Weekes (surname)"; it is merely a "List of people with the surname Weekes"; unless someone cares to add some citable references to build an etymological article about the name itself (information which Weeks (surname) already contains) to turn this into a combined article and list entitled "Weekes (surname)" with List of… as a section, this page should stand alone as a List of… page. And until some other, sufficiently notable, non-person related, noun has an article created for it (such as Taj Weekes & Adowa [Reggae band], Weekes Estate Agents, Weekes Construction, etc), which would likely justify a disambiguation page, Weekes should be a redirect to this page entitled List of people with the surname Weekes. — Who R you? Talk 22:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]