Talk:Warren O'Hora

This article was nominated for deletion on 4 September 2020. The result of the discussion was keep.

This page was proposed for deletion by BlameRuiner (talk · contribs) on 2 September 2020 with the comment:
Footballer who fails GNG and NFOOTY. No caps for senior Brighton or MK Dons teams, and Ireland league isn't fully-pro
It was contested by FilthyDon (talk · contribs) on 2020-09-04 with the comment:
WP:FOOTYN notability criteria states player can be any of the four listed criteria, not all. Player meets point 2 - "Have played in a competitive fixture between two fully professional clubs in a domestic, Continental or Intercontinental club competition."

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Removal of proposed deletion template

I have removed the proposed deletion of this article. The proposer's reasoning was that player does not meet notability. WP:FOOTYN notability criteria states player can be any of the four listed criteria, not all. Player meets point 2 - "Have played in a competitive fixture between two fully professional clubs in a domestic, Continental or Intercontinental club competition." Warren O'Hora featured for Brighton & Hove Albion U21 (a fully professional club) against Southend United and Newport County in the group stage of the EFL Trophy (a domestic club competition) in the 2019/20 season as well as against MK Dons in the same competition during the 2018/19 season.

All opposition sides were fully professional. Player has been signed as an intended regular first team player and should feature heavily in the coming season which starts in eight days' time. FilthyDon (talk) 14:23, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@FilthyDon: it has long been establishes that playing for a Premier League U23/U21 team in the EFL Trophy against a League One/Two team does not caber notability. As such your rationale for contesting the deletion is flawed. Giant Snowman 08:47, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: Where has this consensus on playing for a U23/U21 team in the EFL Trophy been discussed/established? If this is the case, that consensus is not clearly available for anyone not privy to that discussion whenever it took place. There is no mention on WP:FOOTYN that U23/U21 pro teams are excluded, the only relevant criteria I can see (I may be wrong) is that any player playing for a professional team playing in a national cup competition against another professional team would be notable, hence when I created the page.

This player will feature heavily in the coming season which is due to start in seven days' time. I ask that due to the amount of time and effort put in to creating the page and sorting details that consideration of deleting the article be put off until October. I think this is a fair compromise given the lack of clarity on WP:FOOTYN and no mention of U23/U21 pro teams not being included on there. If we can agree I will remove the deletion proposal and will add it again myself on 1 October 2020 if this player has not yet made an appearance that meets notability.

Finally, as you seem to be very knowledgeable on notability and editing of football player articles - how can I add a note to WP:FOOTYN to mention that U23/U21 pro teams are not included? Can anyone edit WP:FOOTYN? FilthyDon (talk) 16:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There have been numerous discussions at AFD/WT:FOOTBALL - look through the archives. He didn't play today, saying he will "feature heavily" in the coming season is WP:CRYSTAL. The wording of WP:NFOOTBALL is clear. Giant Snowman 16:31, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman: Fair enough. Couldn't see anything in the archives but WP:NFOOTBALL is pretty clear.FilthyDon (talk) 01:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hang on, User:GiantSnowman and User:FilthyDon. If I saw he'll feature in the upcoming season ... that might be Crystal Ballery. But (for example) if the manager is saying he'll feature in the seasons starting line-up, and he starts most of the pre-season friendlies scoring hat-tricks, that's not crystal, because there's a clear exemption in WP:CRYSTAL "if the event is notable and almost certain to take place". Nfitz (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't read all of WP:CRYSTAL but what you say makes sense to me, and common sense should always prevail. Not all articles are equal, regardless of whether they meet notability to the letter or not. FilthyDon (talk) 21:55, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[{od}} And what if a player plays in pre-season and the manager says he will play in the League and then he breaks his leg? Giant Snowman 08:27, 11 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]