Talk:Wangapeka Track/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 18:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy to review the article.

Review comments

Lead section / infobox

• What makes the track notable? (this needs to be mentioned early on)

Apologies if it's there, but I can't find it. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:04, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

• The lead is too short, as it is not “a summary of its most important contents”. I could consider naming the two saddles; a brief summary of the track’s history, including the proposed road; and how walkers access the route (and any information about the level of challenge involved). See WP:LEAD for more information.
• Link saddle (Saddle (landform)); tussock (Tussock grass).
• The route passes – ‘The track passes’, as we are referring to the track itself here?
• The map looks better inside the infobox (the text from <mapframe to </mapframe> can be cut and pasted next to map=).
• Some information in the lead does not appear in the main article. This needs to be added, and cited.

Still not done: The Wangapeka Track is a tramping track in the north west of the South Island of New Zealand. It traverses ....; Track building began in 1861 from the eastern end.... Amitchell125 (talk) 15:04, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

1 History

• Link Wangapeka River. All links in the lead section should also be included when they first appear in the main text, please check this is done.

1.1 Wangapeka to Little Wanganui Saddle

• Consider using {{circa|1899}} in the caption.
• On my computer, the photograph is shunted down by the infobox. Consider moving the image to the left, to solve this issue.
• Link Hut (in the present site of Taipō Hut), using Tramping_in_New_Zealand#Huts).
• Link "A"-framed (A-frame building); packhorse.

1.2 Little Wanganui inland to the saddle

• Link stock (Livestock); dray (cart).

1.3 Murchison earthquake

• Link the depression of the 1930s (History_of_New_Zealand#Great_Depression).
• caused severe damage to the track – it did much more than this, it was after all a major earthquake. Some context should be included here.

1.4 Forest Park to National Park

• gazetted needs to be explained.

2 Access

There is a campsite known as Siberia, close to the start of the track. - this is perhaps excessive detail for an encyclopaedia article, and many reviewers might say this level of detail should be omitted. There are few examples of similar articles at GA or above. It seems to be that longer the route, the less detail there is, so I'm going to be bold and say keep most of the detail here in place. However:

• This very short section would be better off combined with the Route section (without its own title).

3 Route

• The text could be simplified to ‘The track can be walked in either direction’, and placed along with the access information.
• There is I think an issue with the structure of this section. The six subsections that describe the route have only one paragraph. They would be better combined into a six-paragraph section. The Cecil Kings Hut subsection is out of place, as the route is not described in it and should be moved to the history section.

3.2.1 Cecil Kings Hut

• Link Wellington; flume.
• with the hope of recovering fresh gold – as this is clearly what gold miners do, I think the text can be safely omitted.
• for some of the men the experience of backcountry life was enjoyable – it might be worth adding here the source that provided this information, which seems to come "out of the blue" a bit.
• After he died in 1982, his son scattered his ashes close to the hut. - really is excessive detail. Ditto with work led by a former Forest Park ranger, Max Polglaze.

3.3 Stone Hut to Helicopter Flat Hut

• Link slip (Landslide).
• From this point – it is not clear what point is being referred to here.
• Link headwaters (River source).
• Ref 16 (NZ Topo Map (here)) should not be used as a citation, as it has had to be interpreted to provide the information cited. I would move it to the External links section, seeing as it is an excellent source for readers to access.

3.4 Helicopter Flat Hut to Taipō Hut

• to a historic site called Brough's Tabernacle – amend to 'Brough's Tabernacle', as it has already been described.

3.6 Belltown Manunui Hut to Wangapeka Road

• A gallery of images of the kind included here is something generally avoided in many Wikipedia articles (see WP:GALLERY for further details). As the images are all available via the link to WikiCommons, they are not needed here, and should be removed.

4 Proposals for a through-road

• Amend the Minister of Public Works, William Fraser to ‘William Fraser, the Minister of Public Works’, to avoid links being adjacent (MOS:SEAOFBLUE).
• This whole subsection belongs in the History section, not here.
• There’s no need imo to state the MOW as a blocked quote, it can be simply be a part of the text.
• Link Heaphy Track.
• this response – I would amend to ‘this response by Jonathan Carson of the New Zealand news website Stuff.

5 References

The article is referenced and free of copyright issues. These comments which are for consideration only:

• Papers Past could be linked throughout using National_Library_of_New_Zealand#Papers_Past,
• Rename and link Department of Conservation (New Zealand) (Department of Conservation (New Zealand)).
• Link throughout: New Zealand Forest Service; Nelson Provincial Museum (with The omitted); Nelson Evening Mail; The Press; New Zealand Geographic; Colonist (which should read The Colonist) (The Colonist (New Zealand newspaper)).
• I believe Tramping in New Zealand: 40 Great Tramping Trips should be Tramping in New Zealand A Guide to 40 of New Zealand's Best Tracks.
• It’s unusual to include the Wikidata code for books, when an ISBN number is available. I would replace the codes.

6 Further reading

• Link Victoria University of Wellington.

7 External links

• The wildernessmag.co.nz link is a subscription website, to be avoided (see WP:LINKSTOAVOID).
• Detailed photographic account of a west to east trip in 2007 – I would add ‘from Don's Maps'.

Other

• Anything about how challenging the route is, or how clearly is it marked?

On hold

I'm putting the article on hold for a week until 23 December to allow time for the issues raised to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 11:23, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the significant investment of time that was no doubt required to prepare this detailed and helpful feedback. This is the first article I have submitted for GA review, and it has been a good learning experience. I have made extensive changes in response to the feedback, and ask for a follow-up review. Marshelec (talk) 00:42, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm looking at your changes now, I usually cross out the issues I think are sorted, and put a small red cross (N) next to anything that I think still needs to be addressed. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 14:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Everything looks OK now apart from a few points listed at the top. I've gone ahead a tweaked a few things myself, please revert if I have made an error. Thanks all you work here. Amitchell125 (talk) 15:17, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I believe I have now addressed the issue about content in the lead that does not appear in the body. :)

Apologies for not being clearer. The History section text following a survey by the geologist... could be amended to something like ' following a survey in the north of New Zealand's South Island by the geologist...' to include the fact that the track is in NZ. That the track building began in 1861 from the eastern end could be included by amending An explorer and surveyor John Rochfort created a basic track... to something like 'The same year an explorer and surveyor, John Rochfort, created a basic track that went westwards...'. Amitchell125 (talk) 09:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I have expanded that section and added a new citation. As a side note, the article Ferdinand von Hochstetter is rather limited at present. I have just obtained a book on his travels in New Zealand and aim to use this to substantially expand the aricle about him. Marshelec (talk) 09:34, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I am unclear about your reference to what makes the track notable. I have referred to WP:GNG and WP:GEOFEAT and believe that the subject of this article meets the notability requirements. In particular, I believe that the sources quoted in the article meet the test of: "significant in-depth coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability". Do you consider the article is deficient against this criteria ? Can you clarify please, and I will endeavour to address this last remaining point. Marshelec (talk) 01:02, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Wangapeka Track is definitely notable, but the lead section should mention why it is. I think amending the first sentence to something like 'The Wangapeka Track is a tramping track in the north-west of the South Island of New Zealand, which is maintained as an official route by the Department of Conservation' is all that is needed to show its notability.

Looking again at the article, it still think the challenge the track poses should be mentioned, perhaps using this already used citation as a guide. All I can find so far in the article is 'medium' in the infobox. Regards, Amitchell125 (talk) 09:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I have added a brief new section on the end about Difficulty. As a personal note, I find describing difficulty of tramping tracks in New Zealand is problematic because of the vast range of abilities and expectations of those who venture into the backcountry or mountainous areas, combined with the highly changeable weather. I have observed people on one of our most famous mountain day walks - the Tongariro Alpine Crossing - who were very poorly equipped and would have been in severe difficulty with a sudden wind change at high altitude. There are relatively frequent rescues of ill-equipped, unfit and inexperienced people on that route. The Wangapeka Track is considered "easy" grade by some tramping clubs - but of course they are mostly comprised of strong and experienced trampers. Marshelec (talk) 10:04, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Passing

The article looks in great shape, so passing now. Congratulations and thanks for your work on it. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC)