Talk:Walter de Beauchamp (nobleman)

Walter de Beauchamp (nobleman) has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 23, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 27, 2009.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the medieval English nobleman Walter de Beauchamp (d. around 1130) was granted the right to keep pheasants on his lands and fine any who poached them by King Henry I of England?

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Walter de Beauchamp (nobleman)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 15:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mine. Review to follow in a few minutes. J Milburn (talk) 15:55, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"royal forester" Is there somewhere you could link to explain this role?
"Beauchamp probably held the office of royal forester for Worcestershire as well as sheriff, for after Walter de Beauchamp's death and during the time of King Stephen of England, Stephen's rival for the throne of England, Matilda granted Walter's son William the farm of the forests of Worcestershire at the same rate as was held by William's father." Very complicated. Could do with being split.
"While a member of the royal household, Beauchamp witnessed a number of royal charters, mainly when the king was in England." Examples, perhaps?
"Beauchamp and the Bishop of Worcester had a dispute over the lands that Beauchamp inherited from d'Abetot. The dispute caused the two sides to agree to the creation of the Worcester Survey.[16]" What is that?
"Sometime between 1130 and 1133, Beauchamp died and his heir was his son William de Beauchamp." How about "Sometime between 1130 and 1133, Beauchamp died and his son William de Beauchamp took over his [lands/title/whatever]."
"scion" Link?
"as one possibility" one of several possibilities?
Some locations in the references give nations/states, others just give cities
Consistency between the way you refer to Keats-Rohan would be good
In the infobox, you give his death as "c. 1132", which seems more precise than the date given in the prose
Neither the predecesor nor the successor are mentioned in the prose

Nice little article- the Beauchamp/Marmion relationship is interesting- perhaps it could be mentioned at the end of the lead? J Milburn (talk) 16:17, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I got most of these - I didn't give examples of the charters because he was a witness, not a grantor/grantee - that level of detail is beyond an encyclopedia article (You'd look up the detailed listing in a very specialized work if you really wanted to know every charter he witnessed.) I changed "scion" to "member". I don't list state/country for New York or London, per publishing convention - those are the two main publishing locations in the world. I don't usually mention predecessors or successors in the prose unless they were connected with the subject of the article - in this case, Green doesn't connect the holding of the office to either the predecessor or the successor. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:28, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, that's fair- there are still a few niggling issues.

Could we have a source for the predecessor?
Could the lead be expanded a smidge? I think a mention of the Beauchamp/Marmion relationship after his death may help to show the influence that he had.
"Beauchamp probably held the office of royal forester for Worcestershire as well as sheriff because after Walter de Beauchamp's death Walter's son William was granted the farm of the forests of Worcestershire at the same rate as was held by William's father." I'm still not clear on this. I'm not sure what "the farm of the forests of Worcestershire" means, and William's father is yet to be mentioned (other than that we don't really know who he was).
"He was also a dispenser,[14] an officer in the royal household,[13] an office he acquired in right of his wife." Also not completely clear; sorry I didn't mention this the first time around.

I'll be happy to promote once these bits are dealt with. J Milburn (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

think I got all of these - if they aren't clean, we can try again! Ealdgyth - Talk 01:17, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, one last thing (and I rephrased one of the problem lines a little)- "He was also a dispenser (or butler),^[1] an officer in the royal household" Do you mean to say that he was a Butler in the royal household? If so, perhaps just say that? It's still not completely clear. J Milburn (talk) 21:58, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dispenser is the actual title - it later became the butler, but wasn't quite the same in this period, so for accuracy, it's better to give the latin title with explanation in parentheses...I've reworded a bit, does this work better? Ealdgyth - Talk 22:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, much clearer. Ok, I'm happy to promote now; thanks for sticking with it. J Milburn (talk) 22:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name Origin

The surname Beauchamp is of Norman origin and is derived from the Old French words beu or bel which means "fair" or "lovely" and champ(s) which means "field" or "plain". The Latin phrase bello campo translates to "beautiful field"

^ Green Government of England p. 208

[Government208-1] Green Government of England p. 208

[1]