Talk:Wallace Fard Muhammad/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Oregon

Yesterday I added that he was involved in case of statutory rape, in 1914. Already married to Pearl Allen.

In the same article of that Oregon newspaper, the "Statesman Journal" from Wed, Apr 22, 1914, he said that he had the intention to move to California.

So the timeline of his biography is getting better represented. Piece by piece. The article is getting better.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/51042587/wd_fard_acquitted_of_swanson_rape/ KingOfRay (talk) 09:13, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Your help is deeply appreciated and helps others to improve the article further. I've been meaning to get to this article for some time, it needs it. Feoffer (talk) 01:48, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Feoffer Thank you. I got to get in contact with Resume Byron again. Maybe he can put some work in too. I'm not to familiar editing at Wikipedia. But small changes are doable for me. Wikipedia is one of the best sources for getting quick basic knowledge, on the internet.

And if you compare the article to the one ten years ago, there was a lot of progress made. KingOfRay (talk) 05:55, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

How early did the new names start?

Do we have any info on where in the timeline Fard began giving out new names? My impression is that it started as early as the peddler days, perhas even subsuming the peddler trade and becoming the new product? Alternatively, it could have begun later. Feoffer (talk) 00:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Tracking down "Mother Plane" UFO incident

Evanszz features quote: The unidentified flying object sighted in Canada recently, [Fard] said, was really the Mother Plane, a vehicle that resembled the description of Ezekiel's wheel in the Holy Bible. The Mother Plane was designed and built in Japan by 'our Asiatic brothers', Fard said, and when he gave the signal, the airship would release smaller ships inside its bay that would drop poison bombs on America."

The first thing that jumps out about Evanszz's assertion is that the phrase "unindentified flying object" is glaringly anachronistic to 1933. Evansnzz, writing in the 1990s, is using language adopted in the 1950s to describe a teaching of the 30s. I/We need to track down the original verbiage.

Secondly -- was there actually a sighting reported over Canada, or did Fard merely say that there was? Feoffer (talk) 23:39, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Evanzsss cites Elijah Muhammad's book Supreme Wisdom p.23-24 which mentions 144,000 but omits mention of a Canadian UFO Feoffer (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

More bad research from Evanszz -- p. 119: "The flying saucers people had reported were actually 'escort planes' from the Mother of Planes" but there were no "flying saucers" until '47. Feoffer (talk) 00:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Girl Recounts Lore of Islam confirms 'poison gas' in coming war had entered teaching by April 1934. Japan was actively engaged in aerial bombardment of targets in Manchuria and China. By some later date, the "Japanese mother plane" becomes a UFO?? Feoffer (talk) 01:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

"The 1930's Canadian newspapers reported that they saw the Wheel (Mother Plane). It came down out of the sky. They admitted it looked like a great city, and that something came down from it; it appeared to be a tube, but the tube-like thing went back up again. Allah (God) Who came in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad, to Whom praises are due forever, taught me that after six months to a year, the Mother Plane comes into the gravity of the earth. It takes on oxygen and hydrogen in order to permit it to stay out of the earth's gravity until it needs refueling again" source find original source Feoffer (talk) 08:44, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

"Today, that Plane is in the air and the scientists and the astronomers of America, have seen it here. Mr. Khowule, an ex-General of the United States Armed Forces of America, bears me witness that it is up there, and have dotted around America's planes in the sky, her in America. He wrote a book on it and condemns America for keeping it a secret. " Who was Khowule? I'm guessing "Khowule" is Keyhoe, a former Major (not general) who originated the story of a USAF coverup of UFOs? When did Elijah Muhammad author that text. Feoffer (talk) 03:43, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Elijah Muhammad: "I can talk to Fard any time I want"?

I'm pretty sure I recently saw footage of Elijah Muhammad in the 1960s or 70s talking how he can talk to his mentor any time he wants. And then he clarifies that he doesn't mean spiritually communicate, he means that he can pick up a telephone can call him. Sadly, I can't remember where I saw this footage (beyond Youtube). I presume it's related to the later identification of Muhammad Abdullah as Fard. @KingOfRay:, do you know where Elijah Muhammad said that? Feoffer (talk) 08:54, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

@Feoffer I think that was Muhammad Ali. Who once said he can call God (referring to Fard) anytime by picking up the telephone. I think his daughter also claims that he had met him as a child.

I don't remember Elijah Muhammad making such a statement.

There have always been rumors that Fard still lives somewhere close to Elijah Muhammad. Being protected by him. But I think that those are really just rumours.

Other people said that Muhammad Abdullah, the Iman of the Mosque #26 in Oakland was actually Fard in hiding. There're many YouTube clips and websites with this topic. But I think nothing of this has any real encyclopedic value at all. KingOfRay (talk) 08:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations!

I don't know if this is the right place to leave this comment but:

The article has improved vastly over a small period. Thanks to many of you guys. I also did my best to close existing gaps.

While only a while a ago, this man was "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma", by now the Wikipedia article gives you informations about his vita, unknown even to people interested in his person and work.

The NOI might not be very amused about it but this article helps a lot in taking the sovereignty of interpretation about him, from their hands into the public's.

Thanks a lot!

(To the mods: Feel free to move my comment to were it actually belongs, by the rules of Wikipedia) KingOfRay (talk) 08:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind words; Hopefully all parties benefit from a good article on an important individual. Feoffer (talk) 09:13, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Wallace Fard Jr & Wallace Elija Ford

I'm new to this topic -- what do we know about these men / this man. Was the 1910 census a one-time spelling glitch by a white census-taker who didn't understand an accent? At minimum, it's a hell of a coincidence if a person born in 1894, listed in a 1910 census as Wallace Fard Jr, would die in 1939 using the middle name name Elija. Feoffer (talk) 09:27, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

@Feoffer I think Resume Byron finally solved the case of the origin place of Fard. Watch his clip more than once. I'm convinced to 80% that Wallace Fard Jr. from Jasper, Texas is the savior of the NOI.

I have no clue why my user page doesn't appear, if you click on my name. I joined Wikipedia 14 years ago.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:KingOfRay KingOfRay (talk) 07:56, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Fixed the user page issue for ya.

Based just on the census data alone, I agree with skeptics that it's quite unlikely the man from Jasper is part of this story. However, he makes and excellent figurehead for a possibility that should be taken more seriously -- namely that Fard could have been African-American.

When 18th-century European archaeologists first discovered sophisticated architecture in Kush, they wrote whole journals arguing about who built it : The Romans? the Phoenicians? The Egyptians or the Persians?

But their racists minds didn't consider even the real answer. Who built the structures of Kush? The Nubians, duh.

This article (or a future sub article dedicated just to Fard's origin and fate) absolutely should mention the possibility that could have just someone just like the man from Jasper.

Meanwhile, I expect researchers will keep digging. If the man from Jasper is the same person who died in 1939 under the Wallace Elija Ford, well, now you have two data points suggesting that's Master Fard. But biggest problem I see with the Jasper hypothesis is that we know Fred Dodd is in Oregon in 1910, not Texas. Feoffer (talk) 01:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

“Fred Dodd” is not found in Oregon until 1913 where he sold food from a lunch wagon in Salem Oregon. In April of 1914, 20 year-old Wallace Fard ( as “Fred Dodd” ) married 17-year-old native-American, Pearl Allen Enouf, and later that same year he filed for divorce from her in November. There is no documented proof that Wallace Fard, the NOI founder ( as “Fred Dodd” ) was ever in Oregon prior to 1913.

Ghostwriter, AK Arian claims that Fard arrived in America in 1904 from Afghanistan aboard a Chinese ship as 21-year-old “Khan Alam” but his name later changed to Khanialam Khan, then Zardad Khan, and finally to a host of other names based on non-logical rational. Mind you, Fard spoke perfect English with no detection of a foreign accent. This would be highly unlikely for a poor young uneducated foreigner coming to America for the first time.

Resume Byron ( "resume" as in a job application ) 2600:1700:72EA:E880:919C:230B:E39:39D (talk) 04:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, ResumeByron, welcome to Wikipedia! I'm so happy to see you. Thank you for your excellent youtube videos which really helped me get up to speed. Inspired by your overview, I now have copies of Evanszzz, Bowen, and Morrow, with a copy of Arian's work on the way. While I don't yet know how to properly source it to meet Wikipedia's requirements and guidelines, but I am keeping my eyes open for a way to incorporate the hypothesis you present; One way might be to get someone like Bowen or Fanusie to comment on your hypothesis, even if only to explain why they don't share it. In such a case, we could probably get it into the article.

I hope you'll make an account here so that we can recognize you regardless of what your current ip-address might be, and send you notifications.

This page is desperately in need of a subject matter expert, so welcome! Some of my questions include:

• When did Fard begin giving new names -- in 1930, or only later?
• Elijah Muhammad and Muhammad Ali both made allusions to having telephone calls with God -- is there recordings / footage / sourcing of them making such a claim?
• Did Fard really introduce the Mother Plane, or was that Elijah Muhammad? What's the earliest record of the Mother Plane? What language did they use to describe it?
• What did Elijah Muhammad say about Muhammad Abdullah being Fard and when? What did Wallace (Warith Deen) say about Abdullah and when??

Any help would be greatly appreciated, again thank you for your video. I've been meaning to improve this article for a long time and after seeing your video, I just couldn't resist digging into it.

Feoffer (talk) 05:31, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Elijah Muhammad claimed that Fard told him about the Mother Plane and how it was built in Japan. Elijah claimed it was a large circular-like spacecraft that carried 15k smaller “planes” that were specifically created to kill white people, lol. What a racist “God”. It was the perfect language for oppressed black Americans of that time in the 1930s.

There is no documented exact date as to when Fard began “selling” so-called holy names. Fard did not “give away” names to those poor black people. He “sold” them names ($10 per person), cheap note paper, pencils, and even the gaudy yellow ID cards ($2 per card) on which the holy names were printed. When he was arrested in 1932, he told police that was his only source of income. There is also no exact date of when he arrived in Detroit, although he claimed it was July 4, 1930. By the way, July 4th was the birth date of Wallace Fard Sr, of Jasper, Texas. As I pointed out in my YouTube video, the NOI founder created folklore from real-life events surrounding his life.

Warrith Deen, Elijah’s son, made statements that he “literally” talked to Fard on the telephone. Of course, Warrith Deen was referring to Muhammad Abdullah who was not Fard. I doubt seriously that Elijah and surely not Muhammad Ali talked to Fard after 1934. Fard was likely dead shortly after abruptly disappearing in 1934.

Muhammad Abdullah of Pakistan said he came to America for the first time in his life in 1959 to visit his son who was a student at UC Berkeley and stumbled on a group called the Nation of Islam. Delighted to see young black men proclaiming to be Muslims, Abdullah wanted to know more about the group and questioned a member who introduced him to Wallace (Warrith) Muhammad who arranged a meeting between Abdullah and his father, Elijah. Muhammad Abdullah flew to Chicago later that year in 1959 and had dinner with Elijah and his new young Muslim friend, Wallace who changed his name to Warithuddin Mohammed. Before this dinner engagement, the two men, Elijah Muhammad and Muhammad Abdullah had never met. However, after this meeting, Elijah would later tell lies to certain members that Muhammad Abdullah was actually Master Fard Muhammad. Warrith Mohammed even began telling that same lie but later changed his story before he died in 2008. Resume Byron 2600:1700:72EA:E880:CD2C:202:B1BD:3FB6 (talk) 02:47, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for this info, Bryon! I really appreciate your insight!

If you can pin down when the "Mother Plane" was first taught, please let us known. I've read it started with a UFO report that they read about in a newspaper? But UFOs weren't a big thing until 1947. At the same time, the idea that the motherplane would be JAPANESE is not something that would have been added after Japan's defeat in WW2, suggesting the Mother Plane really does date back to before Pearl Harbor. One of my other interests is early 20th century UFO reports, so I'd love if I could ever someday pin down the specific newspaper report that led to the motherplane mythos. Feoffer (talk) 23:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

There is no name with the exact spelling of "Fred Dodd" listed in Oregon in 1910. As tamale street peddlers, Fred the Greek and Fred the Turk are listed in Oregon newspaper clippings as early as 1908. But the exact spelling (Fred Dodd) does not appear nowhere in Oregon until 1913 in a Daily Capital Journal newspaper article dated September 12, 1913. Present one incident of the exact spelling "Fred Dodd" a tamale vendor, listed in Oregon in 1910 or anytime before. Simply because those tamale street peddlers' went by the name "Fred" does not mean their last names was Dodd and moreover aliases of the NOI founder. The mysterious person who created this theory and put it in a book, A.K. Arian (whom we now know is actually Karl Evanzz who has other origin stories for Fard) did so anonymously because he did not truly believe the story himself and was trying to make up a believable connection. Resume Byron 2600:1700:72EA:E880:CD2C:202:B1BD:3FB6 (talk) 00:46, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Post the public record showing the name "Fred Dodd" in Oregon in 1910. Not Fred the Turk, Fred the Greek, or Fred Walldad. Again, Fred Dodd does not appear in any public record until 1913. Please show us otherwise. 2600:1700:72EA:E880:CD2C:202:B1BD:3FB6 (talk) 01:00, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for this info. I have updated the section heading to reflect the name Dadd as well as Dodd. Covering the Fred Dodd of Oregon theory doesn't imply an endorsement of it, we note in the article the identification is disputed. If you can think of specific changes we could make to help readers understand that, please propose them. Feoffer (talk) 01:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

“But biggest problem I see with the Jasper hypothesis is that we know Fred Dodd is in Oregon in 1910, not Texas.” - Copied and pasted verbatim. -

What I am addressing is the part of the above sentence stating “…we know Fred Dodd is in Oregon in 1910, not Texas.” Fred Dodd was one of many aliases the NOI founder used. How he came across the name, Fred Dodd, we do not know. We do know he used many aliases; 56 to be exact, according to FBI records.

Assuming “Fred Dodd” is the NOI founder, Wallace Fard; he would not be in Oregon in 1910 according to the 1910 census report of Jasper, Texas. However, we can safely argue that a person named “Fred Dodd” appearing in Oregon “AFTER 1910” could possibly be the NOI founder.

That said, there was a Fred Dodd who DID live in Oregon in 1910, but he was Frederick Arthur Dodd and went by simply, “Fred Dodd”. However, this Fred Dodd was not our Fred Dodd (the NOI founder), because this Fred Dodd lived in Oregon his entire life and was married to Mary Dodd. Our Fred Dodd was married to Pearl Allen Enouf Dodd whom he divorced in 1914, changed his name, moved to California, and subsequently to Chicago and Detroit. - RESUME BYRON - 2600:1700:72EA:E880:CD2C:202:B1BD:3FB6 (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I am in the process of making a video where I fully analyze the undeniable similarities between Wallace Fard of the NOI, Wallace Fard Jr of Jasper, TX, and Wallace Elija Ford of Colmesneil, TX. Wallace Elija Ford was a mulatto just as the NOI founder and Wallace Fard Jr. Multiple public records were changed regarding Wallace Elija Ford after his death on January 6, 1939. RESUME BYRON -- 2600:1700:72EA:E880:CD2C:202:B1BD:3FB6 (talk) 05:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)