Talk:Waistcoat

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Vest, Vestee

The article originally said that a waistcoat is "sometimes" called a vest or vestee in Canada and the United States. As a Canadian who has studied North American fashion for some time it is my experience that since the 1960s the vast majority of North Americans use the term "vest" instead of "waistcoat". A quick Google search of "suit waistcoat" vs "suit vest" bring up mostly UK sites for the former and US sites for the latter (including The New York Times and Brooks Brothers, sources highly familiar with American English and American menswear). As for "vestee" I have never encountered this term before either in conversation or in print. A Google search suggests I'm not alone as the results are primarily definitions of the word and it appears the few sites that actually use the word in a larger context use it to describe a sort of dickey, not a suit waistcoat. I have therefore changed the sentence to state that "a waistcoat is usually called a vest in Canada and the United States".Peter Marshall (talk) 14:58, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation

Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable than me might like to comment on the history and current usage of the pronunciation "weskit". --Oxonian2006 08:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See this link at "Annals of Iowa, April 1911", and in particular this quote: "And final mark of gala day attire, the fawn-skin 'wescot' or vest. This, from the skin of the beautiful spotted fawns we killed, made a handsome addition to an otherwise appropriate costume (hardly, though, for the month of August)." -- TheEditrix2 10:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The modern pronunciation, lit. 'waist coat', is a sad sign of the times, nothing more. 'Weskit' is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.130.84 (talk) 00:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Have cleaned up the pronunciations. 'Wesket' is not exclusive to NA nor is 'waistcoat' exclusive to Commonwealth English. Also, I have removed the badly added sentence at the end of the paragraph stating that it is pronounced 'ascot' in an English accent. eyeball226 (talk) 16:49, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Monetary euphemism

In George Sala's story in Charles Dickens's The Haunted House, the narrator refers to the waistcoat of his potential father in law as a synecdoche of the man's great wealth. Perhaps the origin of that usage should be explained on this page. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 21:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Half-Vest

Whats another Name for a Half-Vest (A Waistcoat that cuts off at the ribcage, leaving the belly exposed)? Arkkeeper (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have never heard of a half-vest. A waistcoat comes down to an inch or two below the waistline, and overlaps with the trousers, fully covering their waistband. There is to my knowledge no other correct length for day waistcoats. —Kan8eDie (talk) 21:11, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rearrangement (eqiquette)

I like the latest move of etiquette section, I think it is better there-- I had considered it myself. However I do think the distinction between "gentlemen" and others should be retained-- I don't think it is "customary", or even particularly widely known. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonTrew (talk • contribs) 12:18, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I reckon it is. People generally will avoid doing it up (partly because the button is usually sewn off-line so that it can't be easily done up). I would need to hunt a bit for a good RS though.— Kan8eDie (talk) 16:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. At least in the UK (don't know where you are) they are normally in-line, giving you the option. I do not think it is particularly well known-- most people I know do the bottom button up. As with you, I would find it hard to substantiate, but I think we should somehow keep it open? (Pun intended.) Don't want Weasel Words but it was the tradition and a very hard one that gentlemen left it open and worker had it done up, and both were proud of it-- that is the point to make-- it was not out of ignorance but a statement of class.

Sorry about mistyping the heading but I will leave it now. I just got a new keyboard and it's taking me a little time to get used to.—Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonTrew (talk • contribs) 05:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

BTw the tehnically it is weskit. I tjhink it is in Shapespeare somewhere in that form. Waistcoat is kinda a back formation, i.e. people assumed it was a coat round your waist, but it is weskit originally.

SimonTrew (talk) 19:56, 15 February 2009 (UTC

kandie it is weskit and I have OED. Not sure what to do with this now.

We will get there between us. Kandi I don't think you should have removed that where you don't know.

SimonTrew (talk) 13:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See:

“

({sm}we{shti}s(t)k{schwa}{shtu}t; colloq. or vulgar {sm}w{ope}sk{schwa}t) For forms see WAIST and COAT n.; also 6 wascoat, 7 waiscot, wasecoat, -cote, wascoate, -cot, -cote, -cott. In representations of vulgar pronunciation written weskit, veskit, etc.

”

We have sixth century wascoat, the original. Weskit is a later corruption. Are you using an abridged/shorter OED? Check the full one if you don't believe me.— Kan8eDie (talk) 21:40, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am just going from memory-- I think in Fowler it is so mentioned as false etymology. That would be 2nd edition. Unfortunately my copy is at work so I can't confirm this right mow. Fowler version 3 is useless. My Collins Concise gives it as "An informal name for waiscoat", with no etymology. It is not listed in my Oxford Concise, Websters or other lexicons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SimonTrew (talk • contribs) 17:55, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

To make the OED quote legible:

“

(ˈweɪs(t)kəʊt; colloq. or vulgar ˈwɛskət) For forms see WAIST and COAT n.; also 6 wascoat, 7 waiscot, wasecoat, -cote, wascoate, -cot, -cote, -cott. In representations of vulgar pronunciation written weskit, veskit, etc.

”

Hope that helps. -- Evertype·✆ 09:57, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Poorly Fitted Illustration

I think we needn't embarrass the poor fellow in the bottom photo by showing his badly fit waistcoat for all to see! Perhaps we could replace this with a picture of a waistcoat fitting properly? --71.202.175.210 (talk) 07:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about

? Racconish^Tk 08:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fully buttoned???

"Undoing the bottom button... This convention only applies to single-breasted day waistcoats and not double breasted, evening, straight-hem or livery waistcoats that are all fully buttoned." Does anybody have any idea what fully buttoned actually means? PizzaMan (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Waistcoat Poetry

Would it be appropriate to add a waistcoat related limerick (Edward Lear) and some lines from "The Hunting of the Snark" (Lewis Carroll) to the article?

There was an old man of Port Grigor,
Whose actions were noted for vigour;
He stood on his head
till his waistcoat turned red,
That eclectic old man of Port Grigor.
(Edward Lear, 1872)

He was black in the face,
and they scarcely could trace
The least likeness to what he had been:
While so great was his fright
that his waistcoat turned white -
A wonderful thing to be seen!
(Lewis Carroll, from "The Hunting of the Snark", 1876)

--DL5MDA (talk) 16:44, 22 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was merge. — MarkH21 (talk) 22:20, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I see that a merger of Vest to Waistcoat was proposed by another editor a while back but there seems to be no discussion for it, so here is one.

Support - the two topics are effectively identical, both talking about the short sleeveless jacket often worn under a suit jacket, etc, with a history in England. The coverage of the two articles is also similar, but a detailed merge will be necessary as the sources and illustrations are different. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:14, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support - having these articles separate makes as little sense as having an article on Garbage can and another on Dustbin. Indefatigable (talk) 21:31, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support - there is nothing in the waistcoat article that makes any distinction between it and a vest, and unless a meaningful distinction is forthcoming, I see no reason not to merge the two (making sure to add "...or waistcoat..." to the lead sentence, of course). A loose noose (talk) 07:44, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How do you call this?

Is it a vest too? -- Kürschner (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Error in History section

In the History section, we have the fragment "However, while the vest died out in elite city spaces, it is said to hav"

I cannot fix this at present - could another? 85.255.233.15 (talk) 21:10, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, thanks for pointing it out! Schazjmd (talk) 21:31, 29 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unsuitable sources

This edit here by IP 139.47.116.188, inserting a paragraph and containing two sources, was likely added by blocked user PCC556 (talk) to continue their edit-warring. Either way, it appears the sources are not valid WP:RS; one may even be fudged:

Lanieri (2020-06-11). "Men's vest: a guide to the waistcoat. History, how to match it and wear it". Lanieri BLOG. Retrieved 2024-10-25. – a commercial website.
"Gilet: La guerre des boutons". Le Figaro (semaine du 15 avril 2016). p. 95 – Searching Le Figaro for articles published in 2016, could find none with any title like this, or containing the word "veste" either. Instead, widening the search to any year, found the title on this 2019 column, which is about button types for tweed jackets:
- Julien, Scavini (15 February 2019). "La guerre des boutons". Le Figaro (in French).

The edit's been reverted. It's a shame, because the article could do with a much better discussion of the early waistcoat in France, but not done in this poorly sourced, cursory manner. AukusRuckus (talk) 14:32, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]