Talk:Visions of Mana/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Nominator: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 11:08, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Shooterwalker (talk · contribs) 23:57, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Finding myself with more time soon. I will dive in soon and see how far we can get. Shooterwalker (talk) 23:57, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Gameplay

• First sentence is a solid summary. Consider turning the semicolon break into a new sentence.
• "During travel across semi-open areas the player can" -> "As the player travels through semi-open areas, they can also..."
• "Outdoor environments have collectables and chests that can be opened, with some chests" -> "Outdoor environments have collectables and treasure chests, with some..."
• "Field areas can be travelled on foot or using animal mounts, with ocean exploration allowed using a giant turtle and navigation of the overworld by air on a dragon." -> "Players can travel over land on foot or riding an animal mount, with additional options for riding a seafaring turtle or a flying dragon."
• "and items and abilities" -> "with additional abilities"

• Did something with this, but it's not the items that have the abilities. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• "items, new weapons, and equipment." -> "items, equipment, and weapons."
• "Party members can equip one weapon and one set of armour, and Ability Seeds. Ability Seeds alter a character's abilities and attributes are dictated by ability seeds, changing statistics or boosting one attribute while lessening another." -> "Party members can equip one weapon and one set of armour. Characters can also equip Ability Seeds, which alter their abilities and attributes, for example by improving one while decreasing another."
• "During the game, up to ten equip slots can be unlocked for each character to use Seeds." -> "Each character can unlock up to ten slots to equip Seeds."
• "During combat, a gauge called the CS Gauge is filled, and when full the controlled character can deliver a Class Strike for high damage, with the type of attack varying depending on the equipped class." -> "During combat, each character can accumulate and fill a Class Strike Gauge, allowing them to unleash a unique class ability for high damage."

The writing is generally good. Just some minor fixes so far for readability and grammar. Let's start there and I'll try to check back in soon. Shooterwalker (talk) 00:10, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Not one-to-one, but I did what was suggested above. --ProtoDrake (talk) 19:06, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Let's keep going. Plot stuff is hard, and it helps to phrase things in a way where the reader gets a clear picture from a shorter sentence, or at the start of a longer sentence.

• Setting and characaters
• "Visions of Mana takes place in the fantasy world Qi'Diel, a land of different coexisting species sustained by the Mana Tree, incarnation of the Goddess of Mana" -> " Visions of Mana takes place in the fantasy world Qi'Diel, where several coexisting species are sustained by the Mana Tree, an incarnation of the Goddess of Mana."
• Are there eight elementals, and eight villages? This seems like a good time to introduce that concept. Even breaking the sentence into two, in order to state it clearly and succinctly. (The second sentence of the first paragraph could benefit from splitting anyway.)
• "The main protagonists are Val, a warrior from the Fire Village of Tianeea who becomes Soul Guard to Hinna, a childhood friend chosen to undergo the pilgrimage to the Mana Tree as the Alm of Fire." -> "The game stars two protagonists from the Fire Village of Tianeea: Hinna, the Alm of Fire on her pilgrimage to the Mana Tree, and her childhood friend Val who joins her as her Soul Guard."
• "The Benevodons, eight elemental monsters from the distant past, serve as antagonists." -> "The antagonists of the story the Benevodons, eight elemental monsters from the distant past."
• Plot
• "Later, Hinna is chosen" -> does it matter how much later? Or is this more like "Meanwhile..."
• "As they journey towards the Mana Tree, they join up with Careena and Morley, and aid Palamena in protecting Illystana from an attempted coup by the magistrate Passar. " -> this is a lot to introduce at once, and the relationship between the characters is unclear. Are they all total strangers?
• "They also meet with Eoren, who tells them a story of a time when Alms were not needed and the legend of the Mana Sword wielded by the Goddess's chosen hero" -> "They also meet with Eoren, who tells them the legend of the Mana Sword wielded by the Goddess's chosen hero, from/before a time when Alms were not needed."
• The death of Hinna and the betrayal by Eoren seems like the turning point, and might be a better place to end the first paragraph. Then again, another turning point seems to happen soon after, with the release of the Benevodons. Maybe give some thought to where the best paragraph break could be.
• "who is chosen as the Alm of Wood " -> "who the Elementals choose as the Alm of Wood."
• " The group begin defeating the Benevodons" -> this is a little vague. Maybe "The group defeats the first Benevodon" or "The group begins confronting the Benevodons", or whatever makes it more clear.
• "From Khoda and memories in ancient ruins," -> are these Khoda's memories? Or are these some other kind of spirit / psychic element in the ruins?
• "With all the Benevodons defeated and their will to better the world awakened," -> "The party defeats the Benevodons, re-awakening their will to better the world."
• " the party confront Daelophos, but are unable to defeat him; he breaks the Mana Sword before leaving for the Sanctuary. " -> "They then unsuccessfully confront Daelophos, who breaks the Mana Sword before leaving for the Sanctuary."
• "The group pursue and defeat Daelophos by the Tree of Mana," "The group pursues and defeats Daelophos by the Tree of Mana,"
• The rest is basically good, but maybe consider shortening the epilogue focusing on the general fate of everyone. (The individual fates of the individual characters might be too much detail for a long section.)

I know that's a lot, but the writing is generally very good. And I'm confident this will get to GA with continued work. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Did my best with the above. --ProtoDrake (talk) 12:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You're doing great. Let's keep going with the development section.

• Development
• For the opening sentence, the average reader would benefit from some context about the series. Something short: "the mana series was created in the 90s for the Super Nintendo", possibly adding "with a series of mobile titles in the 2010s" and/or "while the last mainline entry appeared in 2006." I know you touch on this later, but this new first sentence would make it clearer why someone needed to advocate for a new mainline entry.
• The current first sentence would become the second sentence: "The concept for a new mainline entry in Square Enix's Mana series was pushed for by producer Masaru Oyamada, who became the series producer in 2014 with Rise of Mana." -> "Masaru Oyamada became the series producer in 2014 with the mobile title Rise of Mana, leading him to advocate for a new mainline entry in the series."
• You mention the "multiple field mechanics", but readers would benefit from knowing a bit more about what this means.
• "a lot of freedom" -> "greater freedom"
• "vertical possibilities" -> avoid jargon if you can. is there a plainer way of explaining what this means?
• "A multiplayer feature was considered for the game and wished for by Oyamada, but..." -> "At the request of Oyamada, the team considered a multiplayer feature, but..."
• Music
• This section is overall well written, but consider ways of shortening it, just to avoid weighting too much on a single interview. (For example, we might not need a complete list of musicians, especially if none of them are notable.)

This section is overall well written. It mostly needs help around the introduction, with a few other tweaks to make the language more accessible to the average reader. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:37, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Hopefully addressed everything above. And I've a presentiment that the Reception will be the worst section of all. --ProtoDrake (talk) 21:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

You're making good progress and the article is in good shape. Here's a quick comment about the "Release" section, and the reception section too.

• Release
• The opening sentence is a little unclear because it's passive voice. Presumably, Square Enix hosted the live stream?
• "both standard editions" -> something about this sentence is confusing too. How many editions are there, and how were they released?
• Reception
• "best-selling titles" -> " best-selling games" (not to be pedantic, but this is more clear)
• "IGN's Nick Ransbottom summed up the storytelling style as enjoyably simple despite later parts featuring heavy exposition, but found the cast enjoyable throughout and was satisfied by the ending." -> "IGN's Nick Ransbottom enjoyed the story's simplicity, characters, and ending, while criticizing moments of heavy exposition."
• " but praised several emotional parts of the story and enjoyed the cast throughout" -> "but praised the cast and several emotional scenes."
• "Izzy Parsons of RPGFan noted the unique premise surrounding sacrifice and praised the world and characters, but felt the story played situations too safe." -> "Izzy Parsons of RPGFan highlighted the game's setting, characters, and themes of sacrifice, while feeling that the plot was sometimes too "safe".
• "GameSpot's Imran Khan was disappointed by the story's lack of depth and unwillingness to take bold directions, causing the characters to appear as "poorly-written caricatures" and further noting poor pacing during later areas." -> "GameSpot's Imran Khan criticized the story's pacing, depth, and lack of bold ideas, causing the characters to appear as "poorly-written caricatures"."
• " pretty standard" -> drop "pretty" and the meaning comes across, with better readability
• " Mauricio found the combat and character class systems enjoyable to use throughout the game" -> "Mauricio enjoyed the game's combat and character classes,"
• "The Famitsu reviewers positively noted the combat system as enjoyable though lacking innovations, but highlighted limited movement options when navigating different environments." -> "The Famitsu reviewers also felt the combat was enjoyable, if lacking in innovation, while criticizing the lack of movement options."
• "but found constant input delay with the controls made combat and exploration unnecessarily difficult." -> "but criticized the controls for their input delay and difficulty."
• " cluttered with independent systems to be enjoyable" -> " cluttered with independent systems" (shorter and keeps basically the same meaning)
• " The environment and art design was a common point" -> this is unclear. was it positive? negative? something else?
• "environments as "true works of art", describing the art and environmental design" -> it's a lot of art and environment back to back. Can we just say "describing the visual style"?
• " While giving no specific commentary," -> this isn't important and can be dropped
• "Khan, while negative on many other aspects of the game, praised the world and art design, though he was unimpressed by the music and the voice acting." -> "While Khan was unimpressed with the music and voice acting, he praised the game's art and world design."

I know that's been a lot of comments. But the reception section is generally good too. Once we get through those, we can sweep through the article once more, and make sure the lead sums everything up nicely. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: All done/sorted. --ProtoDrake (talk) 15:06, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Let's go through this one more time, starting with the lead.

• Lead
• "follows the young swordsman Val as he escorts a group of Alms, sacrifices chosen to renew the flow of Mana in the world, on a pilgrimage to the Mana Tree" -> see if you can simplify this for the average outside reader. It will be fine with less detail. (If you need further suggestions let me know.)
• "Gameplay features exploration of open areas and action-based battles, with elemental powers being used in both in the action-based combat and exploration." -> "Gameplay combines action-based battles with exploring open areas, with elemental abilities used in both situations."
• "mainline entry since" -> "mainline entry in the series since" or maybe even "the sequel to"
• "The staff included multiple series veterans including producer Masaru Oyamada, artist Haccan, composers Hiroki Kikuta, Tsuyoshi Sekito, and Ryo Yamazaki, and series creator Koichi Ishii overseeing monster redesigns." -> "The staff included multiple series veterans including series creator Koichi Ishii on monster design, producer Masaru Oyamada, artist Haccan, and composers Hiroki Kikuta, Tsuyoshi Sekito, and Ryo Yamazaki."
• "was intended" -> "were intended"
• "Upon release journalists gave general praise to the characters, combat system and world design, though there were mixed reactions to the story and several highlighted graphical and technical problems." -> split this one in half if you can, or even just cut the part about the graphical and technical problems, since it doesn't seem to factor too much into the overall reception.
• Body
• Somewhere in the gameplay section, it is worth comparing the gameplay to previous games in the series. Is it basically the same template? Is there a notable change? I'm sure some sources must have discussed this.
• "locations, and dungeon areas" -> drop the comma here
• "Combat is action-based, triggered upon encountering enemies during exploration or in scripted boss encounters." -> "triggered" seems like the wrong word here, since I think the game is real-time. (Unless I'm mistaken and you're describing a random encounter system.)
• "bonuses can be awarded based the battle's completion" -> isn't the fact that the battle is completed already stated? you could just say "bonuses are awarded after combat", or something similar.
• "As they journey towards the Mana Tree, they meet and are accompanied by Careena and Morley, and aid Palamena in protecting Illystana from an attempted coup by the magistrate Passar. " -> "As they journey towards the Mana Tree, they meet and are accompanied by Careena and Morley. Together, they aid Queen Palamena in protecting the village of Illystana from an attempted coup by the magistrate Passar."
• "created an artistic style which captured" -> "created an artistic style that captured"
• "being featured in Visions" -> cut this (it's implied)
• "It also coincidentally made reference to the number five." -> did you mean the V? Let's make this more clear.
• "bonuses including" -> "additional"
• "lacking in innovation, while criticizing the lack of movement options" -> "if lacking in both innovation and interesting movement options."
• The last paragraph uses the word "praise" a lot (and that may partially be my fault). See if you can change even two of them (not all). e.g.: "celebrated", "highlighted", "appreciated"
• I just want to be sure that the technical and graphical issues were relatively minor. Covering it in one sentence makes it seem minor, so hopefully that's intentional.

The article has come a long way and it is within range of good article status. Shooterwalker (talk) 02:48, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Done my best with the points above. And re the technical aspects, every review seemed to highlight something else, be it popin, framerate issues, ect. None were huge, so I've adjusted accordingly. --ProtoDrake (talk) 09:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

We are almost there. Just a few minor notes before we wrap up:

• "the story follows the young swordsman Val as he escorts sacrifices on a pilgrimage to renew the flow of Mana in the world." -> "the story follows the young swordsman Val and his companions as they renew the flow of Mana in the world." (the sacrifices thing is too confusing without more explanation, and might be too hard to fit into the lead. This makes it a little more clear and direct, covering basic info that readers can understand.)
• "action-based battles with exploring open areas" -> " action-based battles and exploring open areas" (you use with again right after)
• "Bonuses can be awarded after combat based the battle's completion and whether damage was taken." -> this sentence is still confusing. How are bonuses based on "completion"? I think you could drop "based [on] the battle's completion" because it's already implied by "after combat". (e.g.: combat is completed)
• "consciously varied its art and gameplay throughout its life" -> " consciously varied its art and gameplay across multiple games" (more clear)

Those are significant but hopefully easy to fix. Thanks again for working on this. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:18, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Shooterwalker: Done. --ProtoDrake (talk) 17:04, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for your hard work on this. The article is definitely good quality now. Great job.  Passed Shooterwalker (talk) 02:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)