Talk:Viktor Ivanov (boxer)

Was Ivanov Ukrainian or Russian?

I remember Ivanov's fights on American TV back in the 1970s. Back in those days, all people from the former USSR were called Soviets, just as Ivanov was termed by US sports announcers in those times. But, as we all known now, the former USSR was not a state comprised of a single nationality. The Soviet Union was a composite of many different ethnic groups and nationalities. Ivanov was from Donetsk, formerly known as Stalino. That's the portion of Ukraine that was historically Russian, which to this very day is populated heavily by Russians, but which was attached to the Ukrainian SSR by the Kremlin in the 1920s.

All of these facts raise the question: was Viktor Russian or Ukrainian? Personally, I doubt very much that Ivanov and his family were Ukrainians. I am pretty certain they were ethnic Russians. For this reason, I think the article should be edited to describe Ivanov as Russian, and not Ukrainian.

I don't want to arrogantly and unilaterally edit this article. Let's get some input from boxing fans with an ex-Soviet orientation to weigh-in on this subject. Maybe we could do some research? Let's try that first, and see what additional data is learned about Viktor, his family, and their ethnic identity. In the end, if (as I suspect will be the case) Ivanov is proven to be Russian, then we should edit this article to reflect his true heritage.

As for Ivanov, he was a huge talent. But fame and success came too early for him. He was only 19 or 20 years old when he represented the USSR at the 1976 Montreal Olympics. Like many great American professionals who surface at the top of their game at a young age, for Ivanov, it appears, the pressure was too much. He fell from the top of his world rating just as quickly as he got there. In all respects, Ivanov was a Soviet (or, IMO, a Russian) "shooting star." Too much, too soon for this raw, promising but undeveloped talent. Kenmore (talk) 08:45, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

I've added a source stating he was Ukrainian. And that he died 14 years ago. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:53, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into the matter, but I don't think the source is legitimate. That's because it was written in the 21st century, after Viktor's 2007 death, and long after Ukraine became an independent country in 1991. Whoever wrote the source is assuming Ivanov was Ukrainian simply because Donetsk is now regarded as Ukrainian territory. The many millions of ethnic Russians in and around Donetsk don't regard themselves as Ukrainians. Kenmore (talk) 21:30, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

No problem. You may well be correct, but I don't know enough (anything) about ethnic Russians/Ukrainians. But I've dropped a note on the talkpage of an editor who could help further. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 07:43, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Concerning his ethnicity, he was likely Russian, but we would probably never know unless someone would make a search in archives (the ethnicity at the time had to be on his passport and on all the records). Concerning the nationality, it was Soviet Union (when I write such articles, I define the subject as Soviet, like a Soviet boxer), however, he lived in Ukraine, died in Odessa, and most likely became a Ukrainian citizen in 1991.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:03, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Actually, Ivanov lived in Moscow during his final years. He may never have become a Ukrainian citizen. The places where he lived in Ukraine were heavily populated with ethnic Russians. Another way of putting it, is to say Ivanov lived in the so-called "Russian" part of Ukraine. Either way, I agree that we will have to shelve this issue until someone can get more info about his family and their national identity. Maybe I'll dig into this in the future. We'll see.

Also, this article could be greatly improved by summarizing the highlights of Ivanov's career. For example, in 1976 he surprised the boxing world by winning the Soviet Union's Absolute Championship. Just 19 years old at the time, the consensus of experts was that Ivanov would be demolished by the older, more experienced, world-class heavyweights participating in that tournament. Instead, young Ivanov used his explosive left hook to knock out each and every opponent he faced. He set a Soviet record in that he became the first heavyweight ever to win the Absolute tournament via knockout in every fight.

Ivanov also did a tour of the US in 1975, knocking out three American opponents. He caught the attention of famed announcers such as Howard Cosell and others. American boxing writers pegged Ivanov as a Soviet amateur who, possibly, could achieve big things in the West if only he were allowed to turn pro. Everyone expected so much from this young, emerging Soviet boxing talent.

Fascinating too is the sudden way that Ivanov fell from the upper-reaches of international amateur boxing. In the 1976 Montreal Olympics, he looked sluggish and inexperienced, and was eliminated early. More striking was Ivanov's performance in a Soviet national championship in December 1976, where he was knocked out and remained unconscious on the canvas for a full ten minutes. That spectacular defeat sent Ivanov back to the USSR's provincial boxing clubs (i.e., minor leagues), and he never again featured as a factor at the top of Soviet and international boxing. He was all washed up at the age of 20.

Viktor died prematurely, only 51 years old or so. I read that he suffered from alcoholism in his post-boxing life. He was truly a "shooting star" phenomenon, almost like an American rock star that burns out early and dies too young from substance abuse.

I'm involved in boxing writing, and I'll update you if I ever uncover information that's worth adding to this article. Kenmore (talk) 19:10, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:00, 31 March 2021 (UTC)