Talk:Vietnamese Cambodians

Illegal immigration of Vietnamese

http://www.chamtoday.com/index.php/91-news-world/139-vietnam-s-hidden-hand-in-cambodia-s-impasse

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-02-091013.html

Rajmaan (talk) 17:32, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Prostitution and human trafficking

http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=2257

http://web.archive.org/web/20090328122433/http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/vietn.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20110714161559/http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=0b7fed90afde47e365d4fd1aba009689

http://sithi.org/temp.php?url=news_detail.php&mid=4201

http://petercaton.co.uk/archive/social/the-chicken-farm-a-cambodian-prostitution-village

http://intranet.mekonginstitute.org/2010/5.Regional_research_development_and_methodology_3_21may_2010/documents/Participant_Presentation/Presentation_7May/10_Trafficking%20of%20Vietnamese%20women%20and%20children_Hien.ppt

http://allianceantitrafic.org/vietnam/vietnam_a.html

http://www.acwp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=18&Itemid=51

http://www.acwp.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=66&Itemid=99

http://hanoi.not.free.fr/bia_om.htm

http://beta.globalmarch.org/worstformsreport/world/vietnam.html

http://graduateinstitute.ch/files/live/sites/iheid/files/shared/summer/IA2012/protected/Week2/Gironde_Migration_and_Bonded_labour_210612.pdf

http://www.cascambodia.org/trafficking_vietnam.htm

https://www.diigo.com/user/Emailmesolly

http://web.archive.org/web/20050716082650/http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/cambodia.htm

http://www.catalystfoundation.org/our-founder

http://www.ubspectrum.com/news/asia-at-noon-focuses-on-child-prostitution-1.1411477

http://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/07HOCHIMINHCITY191_a.html

Tai Cambodian

Tai Cambodians

Regions with significant populations
Cambodia, Thailand, Laos
Languages
Tai, Khmer
Religion
Theravada Buddhism
Related ethnic groups
Other Tai Groups

Anti Vietnamese sentiment among Cambodians

http://news.yahoo.com/investors-wary-anti-vietnamese-feeling-grows-cambodia-013722565--sector.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/01/cambodia-protests-unmask-anti-vietnam-views-2014122101345786547.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-25/an-cambodian-oppn-leader-accused-of-touting-anti-vietnamese-rac/5281462

http://www.ucanews.com/news/anti-vietnamese-sentiment-boils-in-cambodia/70049

http://asiancorrespondent.com/119777/cambodia-mob-killing-highlights-festering-anti-vietnamese-sentiment/

http://www.stasiareport.com/the-big-story/asia-report/cambodia/story/anti-vietnamese-sentiment-grows-cambodia-20140430

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/killing-reflects-danger-of-anti-vietnamese-sentiment-52457/

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/ionia-vietnam

http://www.lib.washington.edu/SouthEastAsia/vsg/elist_2009/Yuan%20and%20Mien.html

Questions and clarifications

Good evening Mr Tan, I'm Spring Roll Conan from Chinese Wikipedia and now I am trying to translate the article above. Don't worry, I'm not for GA review (indeed I still struggle to understand how does it work), but for a few issues in the aforementioned article:

1. In the introduction I see (Khmer: យួន, Yuon). I think it is similar to Kong Tsan (港燦, derived from an earlier term Ah Tsan, which refers to Mainland Chinese. Used first by Hong Kong people to refer themselves, probably started when they faced cultural shock in Canada while they was migrating to there in 1990s; later used as a derogatory term by Mainland Chinese to refer to HK people), and not being appropriate to describe them as a whole. What do you think on this?
2. "Until recent years" sounds vague. I will simply change it to "In 1960s", or can you tell me when do they cease to become the largest minority of Cambodia?
3. Regarding the section "Economy", most sentences of the first paragraph lack refs (though I understand it's not necessary to tag refs on every sentences). Just want to know if Willmott (1967), p. 34 and Corfield (2009), p. 21 are used as sole references for the paragraph.
4. "the incident became a major focus in electoral campaigns by the Cambodia National Rescue Party (CNRP) for the 2013 general elections. CNRP leaders also stoked claims on historical ties of Kampuchea Krom, and led to more anti-Vietnamese sentiments among CNRP supporter." I had a look on related refs, but I can't find where does it come from, especially about CNRP's claims on historical ties of Kampuchea Krom.

Feel free to reply here, hope this won't bother you. Should I have any further questions, I'll be pleased if you can make replies. Cheers, --Spring Roll Conan ( Talk · Contributions ) 15:01, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

1. If you do a Google search on the term "Yuon", it is used to refer to Cambodians of Vietnamese descent, although I admit it is often (but not always) used in a derogatory context. Since it is a term widely used among Cambodians, it would be inappropriate to exclude mention altogether. I give you one example source: [1], note the paragraph: "Actually, yuon is a traditional appellation which has no racist meaning. It has been used by the Khmer, the Thai and the Cham for more than 1,000 years to refer to a people recently known as “Vietnam” or the “Vietnamese”. The Thai people, whose language, culture and traditions are very close to the Khmer people’s, use the word yuon in their every day parlance to designate the Vietnamese in an absolutely neutral way."

I have also checked Amer's report source which I have used for citation, and the source accordingly describes the use of the term "Yuon": "The argument here is not that the term “yuon” in itself is necessarily discriminatory, but rather the way it is used in the political rhetoric and the fact that the ethnic Vietnamese in Cambodia have suffered repeated attacks since 1953."

You may also wish to refer to a seminar source at [2], which states: "....As a result, the colloquial Khmer term “yuon”, formerly used as a neutral ethnic denomination, has assumed an increasingly derogatory meaning."

2. My understanding is that from available resources, during the 1960s the Vietnamese were the largest minority but since the Khmer Rouge era they have become the second, or third largest group due to the presence of Chams and Chinese communities. Furthermore, as many of them are illegal squatters, they are not always included in census counts. So it is sometimes quite difficult to give a clear cut-off mark. Anyway let me try to see if I can remove that "until recent years"....

3. Yes, the first 3 sentences come from the same source and I don't think it is necessary to cite every sentence. I know citations are important, but if you cite every sentence in the same para and they come from the same source, it would amount to Wikipedia:Citation overkill.

4. From Ang Chanharith source: "Opposition party leaders and their supporters have severely used political rhetoric and derogatory slurs against the Vietnamese in Cambodia, causing the Cambodian public to feel more and more resentment against the ethnic Vietnamese". I have also added additional source on the Kampuchea Krom issue.

Mr Tan (talk) 08:48, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr Tan:One more issue. What's the basis of calcuation of "an average of 5,000 Vietnamese settlers coming into Cambodia until the 1840s"? A year, a decade or else? From the source, again, can't find anything on it. --Spring Roll Conan ( Talk · Contributions ) 15:51, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Modified and fixed. You may want to refer to: [3] and [4], thx Mr Tan (talk) 08:00, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mr Tan:Thanks! Most problem are solved (I mean doubts I have in translation), but there's again two issues - 1) "[I]n the 1960s, Ben Kiernan had estimated that the number of resident Vietnamese may be as high as 400,000..." At first I was thinking that there's a grammatical error in the sentence, but from my study of the provided sources I can find that there may be 400,000 Vietnamese in Cambodia by late 1960s, though it is from Sihanouk's correction (mentioned in another book, Tabeau p. 47), rather than from Kiernan's finding. Then maybe a evidence is lost for the point that demographic researchers reported more Vietnamese than the government. In my translation I'll likely to omit it first. 2) "Vietnamese communities that have settled down in Cambodia before the 1960s have adopted Khmer Theravada Buddhist practices to some extent." As same as some solved issues, I've not find any of this for those Vietnamese migrated before 1960s (was thinking if it's just a typo, as in the PC keyboard, if not a notebook/netbook, the button for 6 and 9 is adjacent on the right side). Looking forward for your reply. Cheers, --Spring Roll Conan ( Talk · Contributions ) 10:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Point 1: Yes, the figures are in Table 10 of this source [5], p. 48. Amended.

Point 2: From Chanharith's source: "The majority of Vietnamese in Phsar Chhnang commune are Mahayana Buddhists, whereas Khmer are Theravada Buddhists. Both differ by their way of dressing and in regard to their social structures. Researches have revealed that the Vietnamese mostly follow Khmer Buddhism nowadays. Some claimed that "Vietnamese Buddhism and Khmer Buddhism are the same" or "close enough." This shows the strong impact that residing in Cambodia has had on the religion of the Vietnamese people in Cambodia, whereby the Vietnamese have adopted in part the Khmer religion. "

Chanharith also cited [13 “…while many Vietnamese strive to be Khmaer-sot”(pure Khmer) Phnom Penh Post, 26 January, 1996], article at : [6]

PS: You have done a GA review of articles before? Since you have been the only party engaging with me, why don't I suggest we do this as part of the official GA review? This article has been unfortunately languishing for 5 months in the GA queue already but your active participation is at the level of a typical GA reviewer (For your reference Wikipedia:Good_article_criteria) .... Mr Tan (talk) 16:25, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

It's a pity that though I have experiences in reviewing a shelf of GA candidates in zhwp (their GA criteria is derived from the one there, just like Hong Kong's legal system inherits that of Britain), I am not going to finish the GA review due to my inexperience in English Wikipedia and too busy from my daily routine in Chinese Wikipedia and maybe preparations of my study - it's just less than a month left before my next semester kicks off. I heard that in there there is a tight check on plagiarism, image licenses, prose (I still make grammatical mistake in my English writing), etc and think that such a task will be exhausting. Sorry for that, but still hope that the reviewer will find this discussion useful. PS. During my successful attempt to make my translation of this piece in zhwp appear on the DYK column, I tell my fellows that it's possible to have a further expansion from Chinese/Vietnamese sources, given that Khmer-Viet relationship has been in turmoil for several centuries, so I'm not tend to have a GA bid for my translation. --Spring Roll Conan ( Talk · Contributions ) 05:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vietnamese Cambodians/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk · contribs) 11:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• Will start soon--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 11:12, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
• Only have three comments:

• use "pp." when using two or more page numbers

Fixed Mr Tan (talk) 13:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• Fix dashes using a script Done--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 17:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't really understand this request...do you mean for example for the phrase "The first guerrilla-style attacks....", I should use "The first guerrilla–style attacks...." --the ndash feature? Mr Tan (talk) 13:21, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• No, I mean in the page numbers instead of using this "-" you use the dashes symbol on the bottom of the page when you edit,. It looks like this: "–".

• Use BrE or AmE, not both. Done--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 17:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Will look through one more time within 7 days.... Mr Tan (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• No refs for the infobox, please. Everything in there should be in the body and referenced there.

OK, I remove that--the 0.1% is also quoted in the Population History table for the year 2013. Mr Tan (talk) 13:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 11:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• Passing, Well done.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 17:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Mr Tan (talk) 09:53, 26 August 2015 (UTC)