Talk:Victor Herbert
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Confusing line
[edit]Under "Instrumental Music" it says: "After Herbert's death, little of his instrumental music continued to be performed, but within the last couple of decades it has begun to enjoy revivals in concert and recordings. His Cello Concerto No. 2 in E minor, Op. 30, is an exception to this." The second sentence is either saying that the Cello Concerto No. 2 is an exception to the revival of interest in Herbert's music or it (the concerto) is an exception in that interest never diminished. I believe the author is trying to say the latter but it's unclear. If it is the latter a better structure would be something like: "After Herbert's death, little of his instrumental music (with the exception of the 2nd cello concerto which has remained in the repertory) continued to be performed. Within the last couple of decades, however, the rest of Herbert's instrumental music has begun to enjoy revivals in concert and recordings." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egoody3 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Comment
[edit]I removed this line: In 1915, Herbert became the first man to compose a film score -- for The Fall of a Nation, a forgotten sequel to The Birth of a Nation.
because it's simply untrue. Saint-Saëns was the first, for a film called L'Assassinat du duc de Guise (The Assassination of the Duke of Guise) in 1908. Melodia Chaconne 18:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
- 16 Dec 05 I removed the reference to "Sally (1920)" in the list of Herbert's compositions. The music to that show was composed by Jerome Kern. User:Jeffmatt
I added a lot of info from the web, but the article needs a better bibliography, footnoting, etc. Ssilvers 01:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
- I romoved this line "If one does not know about dis dude than they shall rejoice." And added nicer things!
3 Apr 08. Although Jerome Kern wrote the music for SALLY (1920), Victor Herbert wrote its "Butterfly Ballet", per E.N. Waters biography, p. 525. He wrote songs for other Ziegfeld shows, including contributing to several editions of the Ziegfeld Follies - 1917, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923 (per the J. Kaye biography, p. 266) [User: Eriknorcal] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eriknorcal (talk • contribs) 06:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
External links modified
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External links modified
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Victor Herbert's birthplace
[edit]I restored the changes concerning Herbert's birthplace. This Irish Times article about Herbert's Guernsey birth cites the research. Can anyone find other sources about it? -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:34, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
I am the historian who did all the original genealogical research. My published work on Herbert includes all the references. THERE IS NO EXTANT BIRTH CERTIFICATE FOR VICTOR HERBERT but his baptismal certificate from Frieburg (available on Ancestry as I noted) clearly names him "Victor August Herbert". It is inaccurate to give his birth name as "Victor August Muspratt." The 1861 English census that lists him as Muspratt is complicated by his mother's return for the adultery case and should not be used as evidence of his name at birth. Fanny Lover gave him his father's name from the start. I can send you the baptismal record. I am also trying to add my published essay "Victor Herbert, Nationalism and Musical Expression" to the citations for the Wikipedia entry in addition to the one already listed "Was Victor Herbert Irish?" It is more detailed on Herbert's contribution to Irish associational culture, music and history. Mrcgih (talk) 16:28, 12 July 2019 (UTC)Marion R. Casey mrc7@nyu.edu
- Evangelische Landeskirch Baden, Germany 11 July 1859 Freiburg Lutheran church baptismal record for Victor August Herbert
- I wish Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians would keep up with you. We drew their attention to the facts two years or so ago, but the false information is still given that he was born in Dublin. Tim riley talk 16:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Natoma
[edit]I am removing the line that Natoma was "well received", as the Natoma article linked only has negative to middling reviews. Deliusfan (talk) 23:06, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
Info Box
[edit]I added an Info Box, because today is Herbert's birthday. I am not certain why one was never created? I was in Central Park at his sculpture today, and it needed it. --K72ndst (talk) 21:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- Please add talk page comments at the bottom of pages. There is no WP:CONSENSUS to add an infobox to this article, and I do not believe it would be helpful. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:37, 2 February 2025 (UTC)
Victor Herbert deserves an Info Box. I created one and it was deleted. What is the consensus here? "Consensus is reached: The definition of "all" is responses after 72 hours or by all the editors who have posted or responded to positions in the discussion." This is 7:39 a.m. on Sunday 9 February 2025. K72ndst (talk) 12:39, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, as a Signpost report notes: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because the box would misleadingly emphasize less important factoids, stripped of context and lacking nuance, whereas the excellent WP:LEAD section emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts about the subject. In addition, as the key information about the subject that could be included in the box is already discussed in the Lead and in the body of the article, the box would be a 3rd mention of these facts. In addition, the suggested box includes the unimportant factoid about the cemetery where he is buried and the rather silly "years active" parameter, which in this case is also inaccurate, as he began his career well before 1881. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:13, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not sure "deserves" is right, like it's some sort of medal. The one that was posted I found more confusing than enlightening - and that's before clear out the trivia. The main details of Burnside are all in the opening line of the article, which is far better than having them in a box of dubious benefit. - SchroCat (talk) 19:59, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed. Believe info box is appropriate. Sysilverstein (talk) 20:03, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- I believe an info box is appropriate. Lureynol (talk) 21:46, 6 February 2025 (UTC)
- Disagree: an infobox is not required or necessary here as it will contain nothing found in a well written lead section. Jack1956 (talk) 10:43, 7 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree this entry is fine to have an Info Box added. Not only is accurate its important. Robertsltd (talk) 00:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with the others that we should include an info box on this entry. To try to claim an info box is a bad idea for those in the arts rings false for me; are you claiming that Irving Berlin is less of a biographical need for an info box than a mayor or president? An info box can present the needed Wikidata right away. Done right, it can serve a purpose. This is not trivia. It shows a bias to believe that a final resting place is trivia, when in in fact, that might be the prime reason to go to Wikipedia is to find that out. Let's have an info box on Herbert. K72ndst (talk) 12:21, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
- The Info Box is approved, by a 4-3 decision, per WP:CONSENSUS majority rules. K72ndst (talk) 15:06, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with the others that we should include an info box on this entry. To try to claim an info box is a bad idea for those in the arts rings false for me; are you claiming that Irving Berlin is less of a biographical need for an info box than a mayor or president? An info box can present the needed Wikidata right away. Done right, it can serve a purpose. This is not trivia. It shows a bias to believe that a final resting place is trivia, when in in fact, that might be the prime reason to go to Wikipedia is to find that out. Let's have an info box on Herbert. K72ndst (talk) 12:21, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree this entry is fine to have an Info Box added. Not only is accurate its important. Robertsltd (talk) 00:42, 9 February 2025 (UTC)
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