Talk:Versailles (restaurant chain)

A fact from Versailles (restaurant chain) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 February 2009, and was viewed approximately 1,218 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Versailles Cuban restaurant is part of actress Helen Mirren's ideal weekend in Los Angeles?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/February.

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Concerns

There are some concerning aspects to this article and restaurant. The original Versailles Cuban restaurant was founded in Little Havana, in Miami, in 1971-- before this chain, which according to one review, may be "trading on the fame" of the pre-existing and very well known Versailles restaurant in Miami (a mainstay of Cuban society). (Google "The Versailles Restaurant in Miami Stephen Murray"; the page won't post here because associatedcontent is blacklisted by Wiki.)

But even more interesting, ~~this chain's website includes a favorable review as the first item, which is not a review of the LA chain at all, rather of the unrelated Miami restaurant!~~ [1] This lends credence to the notion that the chain is trading on the fame of the older and better known Miami restaurant. (Does Wiki want to be part of that?) As the Miami restaurant is older and better known, this page should be disambiguated, with the Miami restaurant as the main page. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would certainly be interested in any accusations of that sort from reliable sources. I think they would be good to include. I would point out that there are lots of Restaurants that imitate each other and this restaurant is more than 25 years old and has long been an LA institution. I doubt many in LA are familiar with the Florida restaurant, but certainly as far as web and news searches it can get confusing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the link you provide, I don't think that review is talking about the FLorida rsetaurant. It's comparing the restaurant to Cuban restaurants in Miami (where there are far more Cubans than LA) and the type of restaurants found there. The Versailles in Florida is quite upscale, and I think the formica table are a giveaway that this is the LA Versailles. But it's possible I'm wrong.

Checking again, I think this is the review you're talking about hosted by the LA Times and it's definitely about the LA Versailles {http://travel.latimes.com/destinations/los-angeles/restaurants/versailles/review]. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll start over, hopefully with a more organized approach this time. After my original shock at finding this entry, I have now found Versailles Restaurant and included a hatnote. It was surprising to come to Wiki (as I did, when contemplating a trip to Florida this weekend) and find an entry on Versailles that overlooks the original Versailles in Little Havana; because this newer chain has a web presence, while the legendary restaurant in Miami apparently does not (nor do they likely need one, as they are packed to the gills 24/7) is not a reason for Wiki to propogate a potential source of confusion.

The naming of this article is confusing: the name of the restaurant is not "Versailles Cuban restaurant", and it is a chain rather than a particular restaurant. This article might be moved to something like Versailles (Cuban restaurant chain) (depending on normal naming conventions for restaurant chains) and include a "Not to be confused with" hatnote, referring to the original, first-founded, and well known Versailles founded in 1971 in Little Havana, Miami, Florida, to help avoid confusion.

Yes, it does seem that the Frommer's entry, although confusing and referring to Miami, was about the LA restaurant ... I doubt many in LA are familiar with the Florida restaurant, but certainly as far as web and news searches it can get confusing. There is no confusion among reliable sources (and, I dare say, people knowledgeable of Cuban food and Cuban-American culture in the US) about the place occupied in Cuban-American culture by the original, first-founded, and well known Versailles restaurant in Miami, and Wikipedia should not propogate this confusion even if Los Angelinos (where the Hispanic community is not predominantly Cuban) may be ignorant on the topic or confused by websearches. The original, Calle Ocho Versailles restaurant in Miami is the center of the Cuban exile community in Miami, and an obligatory stop for dignitaries and politicians visiting Miami on Cuban-related business. Conveniently located to Miami International (even with a satellite at the airport), it is also a common place for Latin American business travelers and tourists to spend layover time while in transit through Miami International. There are plenty of reliable sources discussing the place occupied by the original Versailles restaurant: a sample is easily found on Google, although a visit to the library yields more. (Of course, in the absence of reliable sources and more research in a library, we can only speculate about how this LA chain came to be using the same name several years after the founding of the original, and whether there have been legal issues, but nonetheless, Wikipedia should not propogate the confusion, rather should name the articles correctly to recognize the better known and original restaurant.)

Just a few sources (far more available from local library searches):

Frommer's: "Versailles is the meeting place of Miami's Cuban power brokers, who meet daily over café con leche to discuss the future of the exiles' fate."
BBC: "Billing itself as 'Miami's most popular Cuban restaurant since 1971', ... "
Miami Herald: "... Versailles, the unofficial town square of el exilio ... "
But Versailles has long outgrown its early days as a neighborhood joint: It’s an obligatory campaign stop for political candidates—from local politicos to presidential hopefuls—trying to woo the Cuban vote. Presidents Clinton and Bush, 41 and 43, along with former Gov. Jeb Bush, have stopped by for photo ops and a quick bite. Artists of all stripes—from legendary musician Cachao to hip-hop royalty Jay-Z and girlfriend Beyoncé—have passed by to dine in relative anonymity. A few weeks ago, Robert Duvall devoured a palomilla steak while his tango-dancer wife enjoyed a salad. It has been featured on Food Network, Travel Channel and myriad other television spots. Just last week, Cigar Aficionado magazine phoned, hoping to use the restaurant as a backdrop for an upcoming photo shoot.
Miami Herald, Little Havana's Versailles is more than a restaurant: "Whether you're a tourist, politician or a South Floridian in search of generous portions of authentic Cuban cuisine, Versailles is a Little Havana landmark. ... On many occasions, Versailles has been a focal point of Cuban-American dissent, protest or celebration. ... And so do the politicians. Presidents Ronald Reagan, George Bush, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton all have been there ...
Also note the four New York Times sources included at Versailles Restaurant.

I hope this article can be better named to avoid confusion: the entry name implies that this chain is "the" Versailles Cuban restaurant. It is not. At any rate, the addition of the hatnote helps. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing the disambigs. That's quite helpful. I think the naming should probably be Versailles (Los Angeles restaurant) and Versailles (Flordia restaurant) or Versailles (Miami restaurant). They could also be Versailles Restaurant (Los Angeles) and Versailles Restaurant (Florida), although I think both are actually called just Versailles. I don't know if there is any connection in the names, but it would be interesting to find out. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to first investigate what are standard naming conventions for restaurant chains: one problem is this article about LA is not "a restaurant", rather a chain. And I'm not sure if either of them are officially called "Versailles Restaurant" or just "Versailles". I'm not a Food and Drink WikiProject follower, so I don't know their standard naming conventions, which is mine are only suggestions. I know this needs to be fixed, but am uncertain of the best way to fix it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]