Talk:Velma Dinkley

Lesbian or not?

I must say that I disagree with the modern speculation that Velma was a lesbian. The reason I say this is because I have always identified w/Velma and I happen to be hetero. Here's what I think was really the deal: I think that Velma always had a crush on Fred, but knowing that she could never compete with Daphne for Fred's affections, she submerged herself in her only comfort, academia. Really, many average-looking, glasses-wearing, slightly stocky, brainiac girls (are there that many of us??) are so intimidated by aesthetically beautiful women - there's no way that we would set ourselves up for that kind of humiliation; it's better to just show off the only stuff that we've got - our brains and humor - and hope that the guy will someday figure it out. I've been there and done that; and if the guy's that shallow, we're never going to win his affections (we know that he's not worth winning, anyway, but media driven social icons and imaging are difficult things to shake). I don't think that Velma ever allowed herself to get to a point where she realized that, or perhaps she was just so head over heels that just traipsing after Fred in any capacity was better than nothing at all. It's a bit dysfunctional, but more believable than the lesbian theory, to me.

See, there were only two men for Velma to choose from: Fred or Shaggy. Fred was obviously a cad, but he was smarter than Shaggy. And while good-hearted, Shaggy wasn't very bright. While dumb guys might be good for a tumble, they get boring after a while to a girl who needs someone who can understand what she's saying. It's really a pity, though, that Velma was never introduced to anyone with whom she could share her interests, male or female. Must've been lonely - no wonder she closeted herself with data. (Hmmm... unintentional pun, but I bet she would have rather enjoyed the companionship of a certain Mr. Data...)

Ppfooie 04:12, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Uhhhhhhhhhh....it's a cartoon# Xx AKJ xx (talk) 16:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Does it really matter if she is a lesbian or not why do you really care.

Ah, well, Tasha Yar once got literally closeted with Data, as I recall...

Wencer 08:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, she did have a sort of romantic relationship in one of the movies. With a guy.--Marhawkman 22:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

That Define forced her into.Anubiz 17:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's OBVIOUS she's lesbian! She has a MAJOR crush on Daphne and hates Fred as he has always loved her and dated her and so has Daphne (it is portrayed that they do it all the time). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.249.38 (talk) 17:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Since were on the subject, as a guy I don't think she was gay. I think she just represents an archetype ideal of women. Just like Daphne does. I think the writers of the show were very aware of this. It's kind of like the "veronica Vs. Betty" test but with a lot more contrast. As a single guy, I can testify that I have gone through a lot of Daphnes in my life but the Velmas are much more fun.

Yes, she is, and the new back there has a point. Daphne did force her into that relationship. B.Lax 14:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I Don't think she is like that. It's a cartoon and I think that she just hasn't met the right guy. PercyFanGirl44 CHAT 09:21, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

One of the possible "theories" regarding the question of her sexuality may be that her character was inspired by The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis character Zelda Gilroy, who was portrayed by Sheila James, an open lesbian. The Zelda character was clearly heterosexual as her affection for the title (male) character was a key element of the series, but she was the same nerdy, intellectual, bookworm-type character as Velma, which seems to follow common stereotypes.Mal7798 (talk) 01:21, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The theory has been partially put to rest with Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated, in which she's in a quiet relationship with Shaggy of all people. Thought this may change with later incarnations. Ztyran —Preceding undated comment added 02:02, 11 July 2010 (UTC).

On one of his posts for Pride Month 2020, Tony Cervone posted two pictures of Velma in front of a rainbow flag alongside another female character (Marcie?). I saw screenshots of him later discussing that they queer-coded Velma as much as possible for the time and that her relationship(s) with Shaggy were intentionally flawed in order to reflect that she was struggling in a relationship with a man. Perhaps time to create a section on the page at least mentioning the discussion/controversy? Public Identity (talk) 19:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

In 2017, Mystery Incorporated's main writer, Mitch Watson, was interviewed on "The Nightfly with Dave Juskow" and stated that they wrote the character as gay on the show, saying that they tried to portray Velma and Marcie as being in a relationship, and saying "We weren't allowed to ever say that. If you watch the series it's pretty much about a girl struggling with her sexuality and then she figures it out by the end." Tony Cervone, Co-creator of Mystery Incorporated, basically just restated what Watson already said: she was intended to be a gay character that spent part of the first season realizing that she was gay. I'm genuinely surprised this wasn't already mentioned in the article, since it's old news at this point. 23:50, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi - We need actual citations in order to put any lesbian talk into the page. It isn't old news as in the past its always been fancruft. Word of mouth / Original Research doesn't count. Ckruschke (talk) 17:14, 17 September 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke

Cartoon Network setup with Johnny Bravo

These two cartoon characters are together, aren't they? There was a mini cartoon shown on Cartoon Network where Johnny fell in love with Velma, though eventually they had to break up because Velma had to go and solve mysteries with the rest of Mystery, Inc.. --63.206.117.150 08:15, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

We are talking about the people that came up with Squirl boy here.Anubiz 18:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

In the Johnny Bravo episode "Bravo Dooby Doo", Johnny gets into the Mystery Machine, and gets hit on by Velma. He seems to be interested in Daphne, who denies Bravo through the entire episode. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.234.13 (talk) 16:20, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Just a fun fact: Van Partible, creator of Johnny Bravo, went to LMU with two Velmas: Mindy Cohn and Linda Cardellini. Small world! DFS (talk) 09:29, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Unique name?

I must say I'm not certain, but was the name "velma" created for this character? I've never heard it used anywhere else. 71.224.228.244 02:18, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

No. It's an obscure name. But after doing a google search I was able to locate several instance that had to predate this character. --Marhawkman 01:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

My Grandmother's name is Velma and she is in her 90's. I was shocked to come here when I typed in "Velma" while going through the various names of people I know. Many names have pages describing where the names come from. Are we sure that "Velma" should re-direct here? Failureofafriend (talk) 06:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I though you meant her surname, "Dinkley". It was never actually used in the earleir cartoons; the first occurence of it being in A Pup Named Scooby-Doo. I thought it referred to the "dinka-dinka" sound used for her footsteps, but I recently heard it used in an episode of Dinky Dog (as a female-sounding fake name for Dinky, who was in a dress at the time). Perhaps not coincidentally, one of the girls there looks like a cuter Velma, with the same brownish-red bob cut--a ladies' style all the rage back in 1978, but which has not aged well. The_Iconoclast (talk) 14:53, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

More Lesbian info

Whether she is or not, the main Scooby-Doo page does have a whole subsection about the alleged sexual tones in it, and so i think that it should be at least mentioned in here, too. Violask81976 20:33, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree Velma's life chose should be part of the ardical.Anubiz 17:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Mhawkins968 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhawkins968 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I believe the issue of potential homosexuality should not be re-added. It places undue weight on a topic that I believe is a non-issue for most people. Also, the paper the section references contains the opinion of only one man, who, as a gay man himself who writes almost exclusively about gay issues, cannot be objective. Judgeking (talk) 18:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

The above reply was cross-posted to many articles, without consideration to the article's contents and the particular proposed Dennis revisions. Considering the decision at the RS noticeboard here, a Wikipedian cannot make a blanket statement that a particular source is undue for all articles. It must be determined on an article by article basis. WhisperToMe (talk) 21:30, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

My reply is the same in each article, because the section was almost the same in each article. They all basically go "Dennis thinks this character may be gay. Martin Goodman of Animation World Magazine responded 'That's interesting'". Ridiculous we're even having this debate. (fyi, this current statement is also a blanket statement, as is yours above) Judgeking (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

1."because the section was almost the same in each article" - That is not correct. And plus that response fails to consider that the articles themselves differ a lot. Undue weight is a consideration of the proposed revision and the existing article.

2."They all basically go "Dennis thinks this character may be gay." - The Scooby Doo and Daria stuff don't say that at all. And with other characters there are explanations and qualifications added. The lengths of the latter do differ, with the original Pinky and the Brain revision taking far more space than the Heffer revision, for instance. The amount of space devoted to a subject or an idea within an article is a consideration for whether something is of undue weight.

3."Martin Goodman of Animation World Magazine responded 'That's interesting'"" - To two (Spongebob and Pinky) - He challenged the analysis of some other characters. And even "that's interesting" adds weight to warranting inclusion of the Dennis stuff.

WhisperToMe (talk) 22:20, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Dennis himself admits that he does not really think she's a lesbian, he just couldn't find any better examples. JDDJS (talk) 00:49, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Yeah - he said that other people believe that she is one, based on the SMF source. In turn Goodman said that Dennis misread the SMF source. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#Cartoon_Sexuality WhisperToMe (talk) 02:47, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:49, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Eyesight

Legally blind (Wikipedia): "Central visual acuity of 20/200 or less in the better eye with corrective glasses." Velma can see fine with her glasses, so she's not legally blind.70.50.55.197 (talk) 03:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC) Her eyesight looks fine she always seems to find her glasses in the end. Why can't she just get contacts wouldn't that be easier? At least you won't lose them.

Good question. Until I developed cataracts and had cornea surgery, my vision was about as bad as Velma's and getting worse. I also had astigmatism and my right eye turns in, giving me double vision. I don't know how much of that could be corrected with contacts, but I do know that my eyes are very sensitive, to the point that I have to hold my eye open to get drops into it, so contacts are simply out of the question. I still have the double vision, but can work around it (decades of practice) and the rest of my vision is almost perfect. Maybe Velma is like me and can't wear contacts. JDZeff (talk) 18:30, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Lump in Velma's socks What is she hiding???

What is the mysterious lump part-way down Velma's left sock? I saw a licensed stage production recently and noticed that her costume included this feature, which I remember from the original cartoons. It's missing on most images I can find online but the costume designer must have decided it was worth going out-of-the-way to include. Does anybody know what this is? Mrstonky (talk) 17:51, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Its her magnifying glass most likely. She has it every episode, but her outfit is devoid of pockets and she doesn't carry a purse. Thats not confirmed or based on any source really... just my thoughts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.145.145 (talk) 07:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Marina "Velma" Dinkley?

The latest edits, here, have changed the name of the character to the above from 'Velma Elizabeth Dinkley'; I can't find any refs to this online from a cursory search, excluding wikipedia, so am wondering where this came from, or if it is indeed a legitimate change. Also some of the dates, such as Linda Cardellini have been changed. She's been added for 2011 for instance yet imdb doesn't have a listing for her playing this role in 2011, so also wondering about those changes. I'm also wondering if appearences in a spoof really count as playing the character, rather than simply portraying a spoof of the character. Especially if it was for something like one of the split second skits on Robot Chicken, that doesn't really seem like a notable appearence.Number36 (talk) 20:40, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the note - looks like a recent idiot which I appear to have missed. I'll go through and change everything back. Ckruschke (talk) 18:29, 12 March 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Deleted biased/unsupported "Reception" section which recounts Velma's "lesbian tendencies"

I think it is time to have this discussion again (as in 2007 & 2010) about why there is ANY talk of Valma being a lesbian on this page.

Therefore, I have deleted the Reception section as 100% of it is either original research, puffery opinions, non-NPOV talk, or plain honest wishful thinking of an obviously biased few. Velma is time and again depicted as either A) having only professional or familial relationships with the people around her (treating Freddy, Daphne, and Shaggy as family and the adults involved in the case as well adults), B) attracted to the other sex in sophomoric, "gee isn't he cute" sort of way, or C) interested in serious relationship with only Shaggy (particularly in the Mystery Inc series). Yes there are a few notable exceptions that COULD indicate otherwise, but after 100's of shows I think we know how Velma is portrayed and it isn't as a lesbian. Ckruschke (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Strongly disagree, the section is on the page because it exists in reliable sources, it's also explicitly neutral in its wording. I mean, the 'Relationships' and 'Relatives' sections could even go before this, as entirely unsourced OR. And the section doesn't really 'recount Velma's lesbian tendencies', if anything it merely explains the context of the idea, and dispels it as anything concrete within the continuity.Number36 (talk) 22:01, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you - their is alot of unsourced content on the page. However, although unsourced, the Relationships and Relatives sections at least (mostly) recounts content on the shows. However, the "Reception" is basically fan fiction. Just because content is "sourced" doesn't mean that you suddenly have some reliable, germaine piece of information and just because some idiot in Hollywood says "oh, she's definitely gay", doesn't mean anything. Everyone knows that people in the movie industry will do/say just about anything to sell a picture and create controversy. This is wishful thinking of a fringe minority and should be treated as it is - trivia to be removed. Please don't get me wrong - this isn't a "I don't like homosexual ideas" thing. It's a "this stuff is pure nonsense" thing. Ckruschke (talk) 17:18, 11 April 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

The section is not 'fan fiction', it's based on information from reliable sources and coverage in various media. It's a widely known piece of background popular lore about the character, the section merely describes the context of it, and as I said, basically dispels it in concluding that there's nothing concrete within the fiction in any case. Though noting that scenes were planned and written for the film version certainly seems noteworthy. The citations all appear to be reliable sources, and the 'idiot' who expressed a view anything along those lines was the writer of the two major films, so certainly germaine to note. Though actually, neither he nor anything else quoted says anything about her 'definitely' being anything; You seem to be trying to present the section as though it actually asserts this is a fact about the character when it does not. Now an OR recounting of every minor character introduced or mentioned in any series or film as a relative of Velma, that sounds like trivia. Even if you think the idea itself is 'wishful thinking', that doesn't make the section wishful thinking nor provide a reason to remove it, indeed one of the sources even explicitly describes it in those terms.Number36 (talk) 21:58, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

I continue to violently disagree - the info has a circular "although people say "X", it really isn't substantiated" which makes it basically pointless. However, I see your points to the contrary and therefore retract my original request to delete the info. I only request your help to ensure that this section doesn't get out of hand with the inevitable nonsense that the Scooby-Doo pages seem to attract. Respectfully yours - Ckruschke (talk) 13:41, 12 April 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

I note you went ahead and deleted this in November 2015 without consensus Ckruschke, ignoring the above objections. As the section was cited from reliable sources, the assertion that it was merely 'fancruft' was false, I'm restoring it here for review belowNumber36 (talk) 06:24, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Members of the fanbase of the original Scooby-Doo speculated that Velma was a lesbian, even though the cartoon Scooby-Doo series' either do not explicitly refer to Velma's sexuality or clearly portray her as heterosexual. James Gunn, the screenwriter of the Scooby-Doo film, said that he was "pretty sure she's gay." Linda Cardellini, the actress who portrayed Velma in the film, said "There were a few scenes where Velma comes out of her shell. I wouldn't say she comes out of the closet." Cardellini added, "I thought more along the lines that maybe her sexuality is a little ambiguous." Jeffrey P. Dennis, author of "The Same Thing We Do Every Night: Signifying Same-Sex Desire in Television Cartoons," argued that the romantic connection between Velma and Daphne Blake is "mostly wishful thinking" because Velma and Daphne "barely acknowledge each other's existence." The makers of the film script inserted a reference to the rumor, where Velma ogles Daphne, in a draft script and the writers later intended for Velma to kiss Daphne, but the scenes were never filmed.

References

About Velma's full name

I was long under the impression the character of Velma's full name was Velma Dace Dinkley, and not Madelyn "Velma" Dinkley, as stated in the article. A simple search on Google returns a number of sites that refer to Velma as Velma Dace Dinkley. The only Madelyn Dinkley references I can find are for Velma's younger sister. Samuel.Vincent52 (talk) 18:18, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. Was changed by a malicious anonymous editor and it looks like I missed it. Ckruschke (talk) 11:02, 13 June 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Seems to be some more disagreement over her middle name, it was stated to be 'Elizabeth', and then changed to 'Dacey', I've removed both as neither had a Reliable Source or cite to back them up. Also this character exists in more than one iteration of the fiction, just because in continuity they state a name it doesn't necessarily inherently apply to the character across all of those. For instance if in a re-booted film, they state her name to be 'Velma Nancy Dinkley', it doesn't mean that was her middle name in the original series, if in the orginal series no middle name was used, then there simply wasn't a middle name used for that character in that series; she didn't secretly have a middle name they didn't refer to, that would be an inapproriately in-universe perspective, in reality the only fictional facts that exist about are what are stated within the fiction. If in another version they used a different middle name, then in that version she was stated to have a different middle name. Either way, need an RS cite for inclusion, and preferably with context.Number36 (talk) 04:49, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Agree. I should have just deleted it completely as I've never heard her last name. Ckruschke (talk) 12:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)Ckruschke

Actually I do not think Velma's middle name was known until Curse of the Lake Monster. 184.58.22.86 (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

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Velma as a lesbian, again

There are too many threads on this already, but since many of them will be archived at some point, I decided to start another. What people have to remember is that the characters were created in the late-1960's, a time when gender roles weren't as clearly defined. There were plenty of women who weren't necessarily girly-girls (like Daphne), and weren't lesbians, while on the other hand there's also the phenomenon of the "lipstick lesbian." All the rumors about Velma being a lesbian seems to have started around the 1980's, and over time more people began to see her that way, hence the portrayal of her as one in movies such as "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back," as well as the originally planned version of the 2002 live action movie. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:17, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Yep - its simple uncited fancruft / revisionist history to be reverted immediately. Honestly I don't know why more woman don't come out against this reinterpretation since its essentially saying that since Velma is smart and wears glasses with plain clothes (although with miniskirt) and no noticeable makeup, then that "means" she's a lesbian??? That explains like 90% of all hard core feminists... Besides, there are multiple cartoons where she either dug Shaggy or a male guest star. Utter nonsense. Ckruschke (talk) 18:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)Ckruschke

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2022

Make velma a lesbian it is canon and change her love interest as well 92.239.66.195 (talk) 15:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Already discussed in the article. See Velma Dinkley#Sexuality with sources that support the content. General Ization ^Talk 15:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Pop Culture Homage

In the 70s animated show called "Wait till Your Father Gets Home", episode 13, in the scene showing "used wives" (~3 minutes in), one of the models is dressed remarkably like Velma, which may or may not have been an intentional homage to its fellow cartoon of "Scooby-doo" that had premiered around a year before. Those who edit this page can review the episode and decide or not inclusion into this page is desirable. 2.132.13.1 (talk) 19:15, 24 December 2023 (UTC)