Talk:Valparaiso University/Archive 1

Archive 1

In Need of Some Perspective

Half of the article reads like a college brochure, and the other like some random students edited it. If there are no objections, I'd like to edit so the style is consistent throughout. I'd also like to "generalize" the student protest section more - incidents like the one last year happen every couple of years, so I think a more generalized paragraph about student struggles with the VUPD and local police is warranted. I'd also like to correct factual errors in the Greek Life section, and edit the famous alumni section -- some of those alumni are definitely not famous! Any objections? Wxgirl 00:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

I think alot of the information in the article, though possibly with a positive bias, should stay. It could be rewritten to be less POV though. I think the biggest problem is that most of the article is that kind of content so it stands out. If the article was flushed out comprehensively, it would help. And anything that can slim the VUPD protest to make it less apocalyptic would also be great. Craig R. Nielsen 05:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

U of Northern Indiana

I wrote the article on Lowell Thomas and the materials I used said his alma mater, the University of Northern Indiana, was now Valparaiso University. When was the school called "the University of Northern Indiana"? PedanticallySpeaking 16:38, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

What is now Valparaiso University was founded in 1859 as Valparaiso Male and Female College and was renamed Northern Indiana Normal School and Business Institute in 1883. The name was changed to Valparaiso College in 1900 and Valparaiso University in 1906. --Oct. 31, 2005

Cambridge, England

Am I right in thinking that some Valpo students study in Cambridge, England? TheGrappler 02:05, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Right you are, along with alot of other foreign cities. Craig R. Nielsen 02:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Notable Alumni

The notable alumni section is being spammed repeatedly. The individuals that are added don't seem to have anything notable about them except for they went to Valpo and have jobs or personal websites. (even rediculous words like 'buzzcock') If some evidence of notoriety can be provided, maybe we can resolve this. Craig R. Nielsen 02:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

No offense to the man himself, but is that areana football player notable enough to be on the list? My vote is: "no."--Daveswagon 15:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Plenty of people in this category aren't worth recognizing. Being mildly famous and attending valpo isn't worth being attached to this page

Redirection

Valparaíso university should redirect here. the accent mark over the letter i is in the name of the city so that name should redirect to here --Johnrob69 07:33, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

even if the city is different some people probably wont know that --Johnrob69 07:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I have NEVER seen the city (at least the one in Indiana) have the accent mark. Spell4yr (talk) 23:59, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable Faculty

Most of these faculty are hardly notable. I mean, come on: there has to be some justification for putting a faculty member under the headline "Notable Faculty." People like Meilander, Wangerin, and Morgan have some reputation outside of the university. Most of these other people don't. This should be a list with a few carefully selected names and then a justification of why these people are notable. For instance: "Walter Wangerin, Jr., National Book Award winning novelist" not "Carole A. Pepa, nursing, health literacy, complementary medicine."—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.56.113.89 (talk • contribs)

No offense to the editor who added that section, but I agree. It's overly-long and non-notable for inclusion in a global English encylopedia.--Daveswagon 16:22, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I third that, Meilander and Wangerin (I'm unfamiliar with Morgan) are perfect examples of faculty that should both have articles and be listed. There has to be some level of extra-Valpo notability for mention here. Craig R. Nielsen 18:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I removed Marcia Bunge because she no longer teaches at Valpo. The notable faculty section is a little awkward as short as it is, perhaps implying something about the quality of Valpo faculty...? Maybe this section should just come out. Aschuet1 (talk) 20:51, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

The purpose of a notable people list is more to connect articles that have a relationship of some sorts. Any notable person who attended Valpo, for instance, should be listed in the Notable alumni section and any notable person who taught at Valpo should be listed in Notable faculty, provided they are actually notable (i.e. not simply "accomplished"). Further, if the dates of when that person taught at Valpo are available, those should be mentioned too. In other words, it's always best to be able to put the relationship in context. --JonRidinger (talk) 21:16, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Jon, for the information and for fixing my edit.152.228.172.255 (talk) 20:19, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

This section seems to be lacking in diversity for notable faculty. The professors that are listed under this section all seem to come from the same department. While I agree that their contributions are notable, I think that we are overlooking many other notably professors. For example, Professor Gilbert Cook in the Chemistry Department is a highly regarded chemist in his field. In my opinion, he should be included on this list. I am not an expert in other departments on campus, but I am sure that there are more than 3 notable faculty that have taught here. Maybe we should discuss what constitutes a "notable faculty" Abbybeavan (talk) 19:51, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia has fairly specific guidelines and a definition on notability, so it's not really up for discussion, at least at this article. Be aware that "highly regarded" or even "accomplished" doesn't necessarily equate with "notable" as far as Wikipedia goes. Basically, for any notable people section, whether it be for alumni or faculty, you include people in the list who have articles on Wikipedia about them already. Depending on the school, that may be a lot. It's not about diversity or representing different academic disciplines or backgrounds; it's simply about connecting articles together that have a common connection, which, in this case, is VU. If you think a faculty member could be notable enough to warrant an article, be sure to check out WP:YFA. But the general practice for these kinds of lists is simply to only place names in them where an article already exists for that person. If you find other faculty members (current or past) who have articles on them and aren't listed, by all means add them, and include when they taught (or began teaching if they are current) at Valpo. --JonRidinger (talk) 05:28, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Past presidents

Is the past university presidents section necessary or useful? Dstanfor 22:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm wondering about that myself.--Daveswagon 21:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

One-Time Klan Ownership?

The article currently states that the Klan merely tried to buy Valpo. But Time reported at the time that the Klan actually purchased it, listing a purchase price.[1] Could this be clarified? --Editing 17:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe the deal with the Klan was all but done, but they never arrived with the funds. Thus, the school remained on the market for purchase by the LUA. Craig R. Nielsen 00:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Student Activism?

There are a couple things I found striking about this section:

1) One would be its existence in the first place. I checked some other area schools and they don't have similar sections. By having it here, it makes VU sound like a hotbed of controversy and student activism. In reality, the student body overall leans towards well-off, conservative, and complacent (relatively speaking, for a 4yr LAS institution).

2) I'm not sure what "As a liberal arts institution, Valparaiso University has a detailed history of student activism." is supposed to mean. 'Detailed'? Did the writer mean "long", "storied", "illustrious", "infamous"...? All of those would make more sense in the sentence - but would also be false, as I noted in (1).

3) I'm skeptical about the accuracy of the Kinsey Hall story. It asserts that it was set by a group of students and was a direct response to the student-administration disharmony. The version of the story that I have always heard is - There was tension between students influenced by the social change/issues of the 60s (civil rights, Vietnam, etc) and a very rigid, conservative, old-guard University President. When the building burned down, the campus activism quickly withered. Students felt bad about what had happened and adult/community support quickly dried up. Even though initial public assumption was that the fire was the work of angry student radicals, eventually it was discovered that the building had been burned by a single individual with a history of mental problems. However, university administration and police kept this fact quiet, because letting people believe the fire was the fault of radical student groups suited their purposes (ie, utterly killing off campus activism). I can't find any good sources to cite on this, but the current version of the story is not cited, either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.152.239.217 (talk) 23:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I also found this section striking. There was absolutely nothing up to date in this section. I am quite positive that there are new things to post on the student activism section. For example, in 2014, students of Valparaiso University recreated a "die-in" to represent the shooting of Michael Brown. There is an article posted by the torch that explains in detail what this silent protest entailed. Also last year, the student body placed bags over the heads of the 'Borders' statues around campus to represent the killing of Eric Garner. These things should definitely be under the student activism section of the Valparaiso University page. Mrodrig1016 (talk) 19:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

My one caution with a section like this is what is known as recentism. These kinds of sections tend to reflect more recent events and can often give them undue weight in the bigger picture of the university just because the editors writing them either have a direct involvement or at least an interest in them. Did the activism garner widespread regional and/or national attention? Did it result in significant or even moderate changes in university policy or affect other administrative decisions? Will the events be something associated with the school on a long-term basis? Student activism isn't uncommon at colleges and universities, so make sure the significance is clear and it's placed in proper context. Otherwise, you end up with a section that simply chronicles every protest event no matter how significant. --JonRidinger (talk) 11:45, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

So far, the student activism section is far too detailed for events that really aren't significant in the bigger picture. A "detailed history"? Wikipedia doesn't need a detailed history on every instance of student activism at Valpo; it needs a general summary with a few highlights. For a school the size of Valpo, it's likely not going to be a large section unless something that drew national attention happened. As I mentioned above, the tendency for these kinds of sections is to either list every instance and/or focus more on the recent ones. Did any of these events get significant press outside Porter County and/or for a period of time longer than the few days before and/or after happened? --JonRidinger (talk) 11:40, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Jon, for your attention to and conversation about my students' additions. The activism that did get attention outside of Porter County was the RFRA protest, mostly because Indiana and Pence were getting national attention about it at the time. Note the citation provided by AlexandraSumner to WGN, TV station in Chicago. Does this really quell your concern about "recentism" though? Perhaps more would need to be said about how it was a participation in a national response to RFRA... Aschuet1 (talk) 19:04, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

References

Culture

In this subsection of the VU page, there are a few things I would note in order to improve its overall quality. 1) There are only a few facts in this subsection, but there are no reputable references to back up those facts. For example, this subsection mentions the University's Honor Code, and how it was made up by a group of students in 1943. However, this fact isn't backed up with a source, so I think it should be, along with the other two facts listed in this subsection. 2) While the information doesn't seem to be out of date, I believe this subsection could be improved by adding more information, which would build up the section more. For example, Christ College is mentioned, but only so. If this section built up more information about the Christ College program, I think it would be more informative, and would it would even seem more relevant to the subsection, as describing Christ College with more detail would provide information that shows exactly how Christ College has become part of the University's culture. RebeccaGreaney (talk) 03:44, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Great ideas about providing citations. Do you think this section would become unbalanced if only CC were developed? Aschuet1 (talk) 18:42, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree that this section seems to be lacking. Besides Christ College, I think the section would benefit from descriptions of different campus clubs that promote diversity and acceptance, such as the different multicultural clubs, Alliance, or SAAFE. Kgoldbranson (talk) 18:46, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I also agree that this section has fallen somewhat short of its true potential. There is much that can be encompassed under the subsection "Culture" within a university, and a few general sentences about a few groups does not seem to be adequate in relaying university culture. For example, piggybacking off RebeccaGreaney's original post, it may be beneficial to expand on the Honor Code and explain that most first-year students must sign a large contract upon the commission of their first academic year. That is something seemingly unique to Valparaiso University, and that would be a nice addition to give a larger perspective of just what the Honor Code means to this university. Additionally, the concept of Christ College is vaguely presented, and someone unfamiliar with this Valpo-specific program would likely be confused about it. Finally, in response to Aschuet1's question, I believe it would certainly be unbalanced if only CC were developed in this section. CC accounts for only a small part of campus culture, and those who are not members of CC are generally not affiliated with it at all throughout their college career. Contrastingly, other groups that Kgoldbranson touched on (such as multicultural groups and Alliance) encourage the involvement of those not affiliated with their specific group with more Core-approved programs such as the Drag Show held by Alliance in the Spring Semester of 2015 and multicultural presentations given by LIVE and other groups like them. All in all, "Culture" is an essential part of the university, and this section has a lot of potential if it was expanded and cited. Megankayla (talk) 19:04, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Cribbing from JonRidinger (talk) because it seems relevant to this discussion, too. "Be sure to evaluate the level of detail for any section. The point of Wikipedia is to give the reader a general, yet thorough, idea about the subject; not an exhaustive, highly-detailed synopsis. Also be sure to read WP:FANCRUFT, WP:SCOPE, and WP:BOOSTER." Aschuet1 (talk) 19:29, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I also think its necessary to explain why Martin Luther King jr. day is considered a major event here in Valpo, while many other days considered to be important by others are not celebrated like MLK day is. Edolata (talk) 04:47, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Missing section on media?

Valpo's student media organizations (WVUR, VUTV, The Torch, and The Beacon) are all award winning and longstanding. The Torch itself has been around over 100 years. It seems like there is a lack of mention of these organizations that are a big part on campus and bring another level of prestige to the campus. As a student at Valpo, I feel the article is missing something without a mention of these organizations and the level of accomplishment they bring to the school. Some of my peers believe they should each have their own page on Wikipedia, but it seems that they would be too specific to write a well developed entry about. I propose adding a section about media organizations with short entries about the history and accomplishments of each. There is evidence to back up these entries as well. Thoughts?Abouwma1 (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

And don't forget The Lighter! Plus makes even more sense now that the Torch archives have been made digitally available and the Beacon and Lighter soon to follow. Aschuet1 (talk) 19:12, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

In addition, I am in agreement with Abouwma1 about the this page's obvious lack of mention of student media, or any other form of student activity outside of Greek Life. I believe that many students are devoted to these extracrricular activities, and that they have an important place here at the University; all of that which seems to be ignored. AlexandraSumner1221 (talk) 19:48, 18 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aschuet1 (talk • contribs)

Honor Societies

Under this page I noticed that Kappa Delta Pi was not mentioned under the list of honor societies section. It is the education honor society and has been around for several years. I went ahead and added it linking it to the Kappa Delta Pi page on Wikipedia that way people who are interested in the education department and look on this page they can see that the university does have a chapter on campus. Jgalbreath (talk) 19:02, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Well done. Glad you felt bold enough to make the change! Aschuet1 (talk) 19:09, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Campus (New Campus)

One question I had for the New Campus section of Valpo's page is what buildings should be mentioned in this section? Some new buildings (and the absence of old buildings) have been left out such as the recently built Duesenberg Welcome Center or the change from the Education Department's Miller Hall (which has been torn down) to the department's move to Meier Hall on the new part of campus. These are a few examples to changes on campus that might want to be added to show the continuous changes that the university has underwent throughout the years. It gives a more complete picture as well as keeping others updated on building changes. Jgalbreath (talk) 19:20, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

I also think that there should be an edit made to the 2nd paragraph about the Chapel of the Resurrection. The groundbreaking date for the Helge Center is mentioned, but since the Helge Center is now open, it would be useful to add when it was finished or when it was opened to the University. Lexaalva (talk) 20:14, 17 October 2015 (UTC)Lexaalva

Great ideas and a good way to make use of the fact that Wikipedia is online and can change to reflect the reality of life on campus. Aschuet1 (talk) 19:07, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

The "STEM Village" portion isn't entirely accurate, or at least could be misleading when saying it will "soon" replace Neils Science Center. Neils will be renovated and used for classroom space. They broke ground on the first lab building, but it will be awhile before this area could be considered as replacing Neils. Kristenknoerzer (talk) 19:46, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Student body

I think it is interesting that this section shows the percentages of Lutherans at the university and the percentage of students who are involved in faith-related activities without going into more specifics. I think this section could use an addition of all of the different faith-related groups that are on campus, such as Catholics at Saint Teresa's, SALT, CRU or Interfaith groups. These should be represented since Valpo is an independent Lutheran university that does not make going to Lutheran chapel mandatory or a requirement for students. Lexaalva (talk) 19:46, 17 October 2015 (UTC)Lexaalva

Also interesting to note along these lines that Valpo student body is no longer predominantly Lutheran, further evidence for you suggestions. Aschuet1 (talk) 19:05, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Maybe this should fall under student body, maybe under Greek Life, but Alpha Phi Omega, the service fraternity, is not mentioned anywhere on the page, though it is one of the largest service organizations and participates in over 1,000 hours of service each semester. Because it is so important to life, shouldn't it at least be mentioned under fraternities? Abouwma1 (talk) 18:03, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I would argue for placing it under Greek Life. You game to make the edit, Abouwma1? Aschuet1 (talk) 19:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

In regards to the Students subsection under Student Body, I find it interesting that there are statistics boasting the diversity, well-roundedness, and academic vigor of its students, but there are no references or sources to back up these claims. Are these statistics verified and up to date? Kgoldbranson (talk) 18:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

In the Greek Life subsection under Student Body, the most recent information listed is the 2013-2014 Fraternity and Sorority Life Annual Report, even though the 2014-2015 report came out in May 2015. In the interest of keeping the page up to date, it would be beneficial to replace the 2013-2014 information with the more recent report. Kgoldbranson (talk) 18:39, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Both good ideas Kgoldbranson. Do you have access to the 2014-2015 report? Willing to make the edit? Aschuet1 (talk) 19:22, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

In addition to the religious affiliation/activism of the student body, I think there should be more about the diversity of the students, including race, gender, and other differences. This will allow Valpo to maintain its stance as school with a liberal arts focus, and not just a predominantly white Lutheran school (Although it still is) Perhaps there should be an edited page for "Study Abroad" or Diversity, but I think this page should mention how many students are non-domestic, hailing from China, Saudi Arabia, and other countries across the world. Maybe there should be more mention of the Cambridge and Reutlingen program as well, because students from Valpo go to the sister schools there, as well as students coming to Valpo for a semester from Germany, England, and other schools. Sgeekie (talk) 19:45, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Unless I missed it in an earlier section, the story on the 2006 protests, it doesn't go into detail about what exactly the policy changes were, it just says that they're was some. I think it would be nice to know what exactly changed after something like that happening to the students. Edolata (talk) 04:55, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Undergraduate Programs

This section seems to be a bit more biased towards the CC department at VU. When I was looking over the different colleges that are discussed, each one only had a few sentences that discussed what the department was about. The CC department had several paragraphs that discussed the programs and opportunites that are available to students in the college. While the opportunities listed are important, I feel like there is a greater emphasis on CC than on the other departments. This could be interpreted as a bias towards CC. In order to correct for that, I would suggest describing the opportunites/programs that are available in the other colleges as well. Abbybeavan (talk) 19:58, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Let's have a broader discussion about how much detail in this section of the article. Perhaps instead of enlarging the other college descriptions, we trim the CC material; some of it could be moved to the "Culture" section as suggested by RebeccaGreaney. I might also recommend adding links to the colleges' webpages. After all, what do readers expect to learn on Wikipedia and what would they prefer to find out by visiting external sites? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aschuet1 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Make sure any links added are in the form of citations. In other words, you have a paragraph about one of the colleges and then afterwards a citation from the website. Any outstanding claim (such as a ranking or other superlative) needs to come from a reliable third-party source. Inline external links are discouraged and will be removed. See WP:EL --JonRidinger (talk) 18:50, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Academics/Undergraduate Programming

I'd have to agree with Abbybeavan and her critical analyis of the inherent bias toward Christ College within the "Undergraduate" section. While I understand that as a smaller college, it is easier to present all of the programmatic features of Christ College, all of the other colleges' descriptions seem to be vague and fleeting at best. Perhaps then, the way to curtail this problem would be to shorten the length of the Christ College section, as well as lengthen and expand upon the notablity and diversity of the other University colleges. Further, I find the sections on our Graduate and Law school to be completely terse and empty of meaning. Perhaps these sections could be expounded upon: detailing the educational opportunites, programs, awards, etc. AlexandraSumner1221 (talk) 19:48, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I am concerned with the length of description of the college programs here at VU. I agree with others that there is a significant length difference in description of Christ College versus other programs. I believe that going into more detail with other programs would be very beneficial especially because as a current student, I think that engineering and nursing hold some of the most students in these areas. This would eliminate the bias that seems to be surrounding this one program. Allyi2016 (talk) 20:43, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Be sure to evaluate the level of detail for any section. It may be a middle of the road case where one needs some more details while others have too much. The point of Wikipedia is to give the reader a general, yet thorough, idea about the subject; not an exhaustive, highly-detailed synopsis. Also be sure to read WP:FANCRUFT, WP:SCOPE, and WP:BOOSTER. --JonRidinger (talk) 18:52, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I think the Christ College section can be edited down some. The third paragraph in particular reads more descriptive and borders on marketing copy. Some of the other sections can be added to also to be more equitable. The engineering section, for example, can include info about the solar energy research since it's notable and relevant. Nursing and health professions can include the newer majors (healthcare leadership, public health, physician assistant) so it's clear it's not just nursing.Kristenknoerzer (talk) 19:55, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

College of Engineering

The source link for the description to the VU college of engineering is broken. This link may bring the section's source up to date: http://www.valpo.edu/college-of-engineering/ KalPence (talk) 18:54, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

DO IT! Aschuet1 (talk) 19:26, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

The description is also outdated. It references the 2013 US News Rankings. The 2016 list was published last month and includes the college as one of the top 25.Kristenknoerzer (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

College of Arts and Sciences

The subsection College of Arts and Sciences, under heading Academics, is flirting with plagiarism--if it's not committing it outright. It matches the source nearly verbatim. Perhaps there is a way to extract the main points from the source without listing the CAS's features directly. The source seems to focus heavily on the integral nature of the college, its ability to blend the theoretical and practical, and the option to personalize one's education. By re-establishing the focus of the source, perhaps we could paraphrase it more effectively in this section. KalPence (talk) 19:12, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Good eye. Thanks for the research. Aschuet1 (talk) 19:24, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Intramural Athletics?

Valparaiso, like many universities, has a fairly active intramural/club athletics scene. Shouldn't there at least be some mention of this in the athletics section? If not there, then perhaps a short subsection? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvinhenninger (talk • contribs) 16:15, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Students

The student section is full of vague assertions which are not necessarily backed by specific citations. Foremost among these are that students come from "geographically diverse backgrounds" including those from "almost every other state of the United States and from nearly 50 countries". Specific numbers based on recent statistics would be nice --with sources cited-- as well as the elimination of subjective terms like "geographically diverse". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calvinhenninger (talk • contribs) 17:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Usage of VU

The article frequently uses VU to represent Valparaiso University, and this goes against Valparaiso University's Editorial Style Guide. This may not be an issue here as there is little or no ambiguity as to what VU represents, but I still petition to change the instances of VU to Valpo or Valparaiso University for clarity and consistency. Vanderlavanski (talk) 19:34, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

It is common to abbreviate colleges and universities as such, so the style guide really has no bearing here in terms of the school's current preferred short. In the end, a school's style guide only applies to items published by the school, not things about the school. Doing a quick Google search, I found instances where departments of the university use "VU" such as Continuing Education ("...presentations by VU faculty..."), Library Services ("The collection includes VU artifacts..."), and Athletics ("...with VU Players & Coaches..."), along with secondary sources like the Chicago Tribune ("...during his years at VU...") and the Capital Gazette ("VU (20-6, 4-2) had singles..."). In other words, it's a reasonable abbreviation that's hardly unused or obscure, so no justification removing it from this article since Wikipedia operates under what reliable sources say, not by the style guides of the article's subject. --JonRidinger (talk) 01:35, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

1871 Civil War ???

While the school may have been affected by " ...the fallout of the Civil War..." as late as 1871, it would not be because "...most men (both students and administrative members) had enrolled in the army." Those who enlisted (NOT enrolled) for the Civil War were discharged and went home almost immediately after it was over in 1865. GWFrog (talk) 06:00, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I reworded the paragraph to better handle the time sequence. Of course, there are no specific sources cited, so I had make a best guess as to what was originally intended. Indyguy (talk) 17:55, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Protests

I see no valid reason why more of this article should be devoted to student protests than to the school itself. The Kinsley Hall Fire event should stay, but the VUPD protest part needs to go.--Daveswagon 03:48, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The protests did gain a lot of media attention regionally though, and will certainly be a defining moment for those around at the time. However, it is too large, NPOV, and a rambling disaster. It needs to be carefully edited to an objective paragraph or two. Craig R. Nielsen 02:44, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that it's a recent event so it's hard to know how relevent it will be in a few years time. However, the openning sentence about a 2000 arrest of a theology professor seems pretty unnecessary.

I disagree. The part of the article about the professor incident in 2000 is important. Properly edited and well-written (as we would all have it be), it establishes a longer-term history of difficult relations between the VUPD and the students/staff which is extremely important, such that this isn't just reporting on a current event, which really doesn't much belong in an encyclopaedia. The only reason the section as a whole does belong is because it is not just a crisis now, but part of an ongoing and very serious problem. I will add the section back and and integrate it into the rest of the section, but I certainly welcome further discussion on this.--Apostlemep12 02:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I can see how it may be very relevent and immediate to someone on campus, but from my point of view, the sources I've seen have definately made it seem at least partially like a 'beer protest'. Maybe if we got more citations included in the section it would help clean things up? Dstanfor 14:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Speaking as an alumni I am offended that these trust fund babies think they can turn an encyclopedia entry into their own personal message board.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Crsjk19 (talk • contribs)

I am upset that this part of the article hasn't been updated. There was more than 500 students there the number was more around 1000. Also the police avoided handling the issue and just let it die over the summer. What they did end up doing was buying a brand new charger(the rumor is officer Garbers request for a helicopter and a hummer were rejected). They also got rid of the student escort service and turned it into two vans driven around by creepy old men. The vans will sit in parking lots with their lights still on shinning into oncoming traffic, and they have other annoying almost stalkerish habits.

In regards to some of your comments, the reference to the 2000 arrest of a professor is important because I know of a student that was followed into Jimmy Johns and when he didn't reply immediately was kicked behind his knee, buckling him down where they then handcuffed him and arrested him. The charge again was resisting arrest. It was implied that he was drunk, but the amazing police force failed to breathalize him, so despite having to spend the better part of a week in jail (due to previous underage alcohol arrests) he wasn't charged with a thing. The police harrass anyone for any reason. One evening I was personally walking to the Dynasty Buffet on Lincolnway. Both walking there and walking back I was stopped by a VUPD squad car and questioned about where I lived, what I was doing, and if I was under any influences. The reasoning they gave me was that they were looking for suspect in an assult charge. He was described as between 5'8 and 6 foot and was wearing a hoodie. Standing at 6'3 I am clearly too tall, and it is rather obscene to stop a student for wearing a hoodie when it's snowing outside.

Going back to the protest. It filled the last month of school. Shirts were made and worn. Signs were put up in front of every fraternity house. When more than 1/10 of your school shows up to protest the very organization that's supposed to be protecting them...that's a big deal. The numbers are skewed to make it look like the police just don't go around arresting students. I think the number publicized for arrests from alcohol last year was between 25 and 50. The number is easily 2 to 3 times that number. They alone arrested some 15 off the escort vans that one weekend.

I hope that somehow a follow up to the protest will be recorded on the site, and I'm actually dissapointed that the information has been condensed. I understand that I would write a biased statement, as I am a current student. On the other hand it's hard to truly believe how bad the VUPD are unless you watch them drive circles around a fraternity hoping to spot something to give them "probable" cause to investigate —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oopiewan (talk • contribs)

There was most definitely not 1,000 students at the protest. That would have been a 1/4 of the university (despite your claims that it would have been 1/10 -- VU does not have 10,000 students).--Daveswagon 08:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Not to argue mathematics here, but 1/4 > 1/10, which is what I was saying. We all met at the union and then walked peacefully down both sides of the street in single file all the way to the police station. That is about 2 city blocks. It took about 30 minutes. If your telling me there was only 500 students, then valpo is either the most out of shape college in the US or simply the slowest. The number 500 was approximated off of the signed protest sheets. Which unfortunately were very badly passed around, and there wasn't enough of them. We may have only had 500 signatures, but I know we had more than 500 people there.

As another Valpo graduate, who was a junior when the event happened, I think we need to minimize the importance of the protest in this article. The event was big for about a day (and didn't have 1000 students -- Wehrenberg dining hall had as many students as normal that night), and then everybody forgot about it. People just got worked up about the policies of a dry campus, something they knew about when they first applied, were actually being enforced. Spell4yr (talk) 23:58, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

"During the Spring 2006 semester, a Valparaiso police officer entered a fraternity house with his weapon drawn under suspicion of alleged drug use." Which of them was under suspicion of drug use--the officer, or the weapon? Dgndenver (talk) 07:51, 13 February 2021 (UTC)