Talk:VAW-11

Vietnam

Their deployments supporting the vietnam war should be mentioned.

Any info on what happened in early August (2nd-5th) 1965 that earned Detachments B & F a Navy Unit Commendation?

Gecko G (talk) 21:22, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone know from where the following conflicting information comes?

Statement number one: "...on 20 April 1967, the squadron was redesignated as Carrier Airborne Early Warning Wing 11 while the various detachments were established as separate individual VAW squadrons."

Statement number two: "The squadron disestablished and redesignated VAW-111 and named "Grey Berets" in 1967. ...The squadron was decommissioned in 1976. The squadron was briefly reestablished on 1 October 1986 until 30 April 1988"

Statement number one: "...on 20 April 1967, the squadron was redesignated as Carrier Airborne Early Warning Wing 11 while the various detachments were established as separate individual VAW squadrons." conflicts with statement number two: "The squadron disestablished and redesignated VAW-111 and named "Grey Berets" in 1967....The squadron was briefly reestablished on 1 October 1986..."

Statement number one is correct. Statement number two is not possible.

The Dictionary of American Naval Aviation Squadrons Vol I Appendix 5 "How to trace Squadron Lineage" states: "When dealing with a squadron’s lineage, the only correct terms to use are establishment, disestablishment and redesignation."; "A unit’s history and lineage begins when it is established and ends at the time it is disestablished." and "A newly established squadron bearing the same designation of a unit that had previously existed may carry on the traditions of the old organization but it cannot claim the history or lineage of the previous unit." That verbiage is repeated in enclosure (2) of OPNAVINST 5030.4E of 19 March 1998 and its subsequent update, OPNAVINST 5030.4G of 11 Apr 2012.

Given that a squadron's history begins when it is established and ends when it is disestablished and that the only correct terms to use are "establishment", "disestablishment" and "redesignation" ("reestablished" has no meaning in the lineage and history of U.S. Navy aircraft squadrons) the second statement cannot be correct for two reasons.

   1.  "The squadron disestablished and redesgnated VAW-111": A squadron cannot be "disestablished" and then subsequently be "redesignated" because once the squadron has been disestablished it has ceased to exist. A squadron which does not exist cannot be "redesignated".  
   2.  "The squadron was briefly reestablished on 1 October 1986 until 30 April 1988":  There is no such thing as "reestablished" and again, once a squadron has been disestablished it has ceased to exist.  A squadron which does not exist cannot undergo any kind of action.

What actually occurred is: On 20 April 1967 VAW-11 became Airborne Early Warning Wing ELEVEN and its detachments were all established as squadrons: VAW-111, VAW-112, VAW-113, VAW-114, VAW-115 and VAW-116. RVAW-110 was established as a Fleet Replacement Squadron (later redisignated to VAW-110). VAW-111 adopted "Hunter" as a nickname. On 1 June 1977 that first squadron designated VAW-111 was disestablished. Nine years later in 1986 a new squadron was established on 30 September and given the designation VAW-111 as that designation was available for use. That squadron adopted the name "Grey Berets". It was not the same squadron which was designated VAW-111 from 20 April 1967 to 1 June 1977. The first squadron designated VAW-111 is not a "redesignation" of VAW-11, it was a new squadron established from one of VAW-11's detachments just as VAW-112, 113, 114, 115 and 116 were.

Note: the above rules governing squadron history and lineage were changed by OPNAVINST 5030.4E on 19 March 1998. Since that date squadrons are no longer "disestablished", instead they are now "deactivated" and placed in an inactive status awaiting potential future "reactivation" (see enclosure (1) of OPNAVINST 5030.4E and the current version 5030.4G). These "new" rules have no bearing on the discussion above regarding VAW-11 and the two squadrons which bore the designation VAW-111.Navalaviator84 (talk) 02:11, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

References