Talk:University of Auckland Festival Choir

	New Zealand portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New Zealand, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New Zealand and New Zealand-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New ZealandWikipedia:WikiProject New ZealandTemplate:WikiProject New ZealandNew Zealand articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the New Zealand music task force.

Auckland Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Auckland, which aims to improve the coverage of Auckland, New Zealand, on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.AucklandWikipedia:WikiProject AucklandTemplate:WikiProject AucklandWikiProject Auckland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view.

Gertrude206 (talk · contribs) This user has declared a connection. (Was a member of the University of Auckland Festival Choir)

Photographs of choir members and performances at notable venues?

It is pleasing to see this article has been created, and it is to be hoped one is also on the way for Peter Godfrey. It would be good to see a scanned roll of choir members, perhaps from inside one of the programmes, as well as photographs, especially of notable performances listed in the article, where the photographers are contactable to grant permission. Chrisdevelop (talk) 22:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chrisdevelop Thanks for your comment. I thought it was overdue too and intend to do an article on Peter Godfrey. I am hoping to get photos, perhaps from other choir members, but the difficulty is copyright. Gertrude206 (talk) 22:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect created

from Auckland University Festival Choir Chrisdevelop (talk) 17:48, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Performance at the Snape Maltings

@Gertrude206: Can you please revert this edit? The choir performed at the Maltings. There is a handwritten letter from Peter Godfrey in the linked-to entry in the Pears Britten diary thanking them for inviting the choir to perform there. Chrisdevelop (talk) 17:30, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chrisdevelop Re the choir's visit to the Maltings I have cited a published source ^[1]. This source says: "The first highlight was our visit to Peter Pears and Benjamin Britten at The Maltings, Snape, on our way to Cambridge. We didn't give a concert there but we received an invitation to meet them as one of our singers, Christopher Lackner, was the first holder of the Pears/Britten Scholarship that they had set up when in Auckland. The singer and the composer had given an unscheduled recital during an informal visit to New Zealand, and had donated the proceeds to set up this scholarship. They gave us a sumptuous lunch in the concert hall restaurant. It was a moving experience and so kind of them - typical of these good people."

The links to the archive catalogue records (https://www.bpacatalogue.org/archive/PPA-CHARLTON and https://www.bpacatalogue.org/archive/BBA-AUCKLAND_UNIVERSITY) refer to correspondence about the choir visiting the Maltings but do not say that the choir sang at the Maltings and there is no published/digital letter to cite. I hope to find another published source which clarifies not only singing at the Maltings but also what the choir sang. Gertrude206 (talk) 01:40, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gertrude206: I see. Did you read Peter Godfrey's letter? It is in his own handwriting, obtainable from the PB Trust as reference in the links I cited above. Below is the text:

Westminster Abbey
8 May 1972
Dear Ben & Peter
You can't imagine the terrific thrill it gave the choir to come to Snape to see you both on Friday. This whole tour has, of course, meant a great deal to them all, but one of the great highlights will have been their visit to you.
Thank you so much for inviting us, for also allowing us to sing in the Maltings, and for entertaining us so generously for lunch. You must be so busy at this time of the year, preparing for the Festival - therefore, we value even more the time you spent with us.
We visited Hengrave Hall, and sang Madrigals in the banqueting hall, & saw J. Wilbye's Chamber!
Thank you, once again, for everything. I very much look forward to coming to the Festival next year.
With all good wishes
Yours very sincerely
Peter Godfrey

Godfrey's statement, "allowing us to sing", confirms the choir sang at Maltings, but doesn't refer to a concert per se, while Margery Charlton's handwritten letter is couched in similar terms, without referring to a performance. Derek Williams has a recollection the choir sang 'Ghosts, Fire and Water' in the auditorium and possibly 'Jubilate Deo' as well, with Pears and Britten present. Chrisdevelop (talk) 22:04, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gertrude206: Any progress on this? Have you contacted the PB at Maltings for the letters? It is inconceivable that both Charlton and Godfrey would write the letters I cited above, thanking the PB Trust for allowing the choir to sing at the Maltings, if the choir did not in fact sing there. This source is surely more reliable than the recollection in your cited source. Williams also recalls singing there. Chrisdevelop (talk) 22:47, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No I haven't contacted the PB archive. As I said in my post of 23 Sept I would like to find a published source as that is preferential to citing an archive. I am looking. --Gertrude206 (talk) 06:10, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Chrisdevelop: I have double-checked with another editor regarding the use of archival sources who advised me that in order to use the PB archive it would be necessary to contact the archive and ask them to include the details of the letter in the archive record. IMvHO I don't consider it sufficiently important to follow this up with the PB Archive as I have now cited from Peter Godfrey's report. I think this is enough on this event which is surely a small part of the tour.--Gertrude206 (talk) 23:59, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Salmon, Elizabeth (2015). Peter Godfrey: Father of New Zealand Choral Music. Eastbourne: Mākaro Press. p. 109. ISBN 978-0-9941065-8-2.

Removal of categories

@Janneman27: Why did you remove the composer, choral and conductor categories? Chrisdevelop (talk) 01:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The categories are inappropriate for this kind of page. A festival choir is not a composer. A festival choir is not a choral festival. A festival choir is not a conductor. A festival choir is a choir. Janneman27 (talk) 08:09, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Janneman27: From https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Help:Category my understanding is as summarised in its opening paragraph:

Categories are intended to group together pages on similar subjects. They are implemented by a MediaWiki feature that adds any page with a text like Category:XYZ in its wiki markup to the automated listing that is the category with name XYZ. Categories help readers to find, and navigate around, a subject area, to see pages sorted by title, and to thus find article relationships.

The categories you deleted all reference topics within this article, and fulfil the above criteria. They do not have to literally be the actual category, and by linking related articles, help readers find articles they might not otherwise stumble across. Chrisdevelop (talk) 12:48, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You are misunderstanding what categories are for. Categories are there to group together pages on similar topics (eg. "choirs"). Pages aren't there to group together related categories. Go to tye category pages for composers and choirs and festivals. You will not see a single other choir mention on those pages. Just composers, or festivals, etc. This page was the only exception until I removed the incorrect categories. Janneman27 (talk) 13:08, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Janneman27 is correct here. While a category is a group of related topics, the relationship between a topic and its categories needs to be expressible as "[Topic] is a [category]". Not "is a thing indirectly related to", but "is a" with no additional words added above that. For example, Category:New Zealand composers is not for choirs that have performed the work of New Zealand composers, it is for people who are New Zealand composers. Bearcat (talk) 13:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. That explains it much better than what I did. Yes, the point is that if I go to the category page for (eg.) choirs, I want to see a list of pages of choirs, not a list of everything that could possibly relate to choirs. Janneman27 (talk) 14:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[:7-1] Salmon, Elizabeth (2015). Peter Godfrey: Father of New Zealand Choral Music. Eastbourne: Mākaro Press. p. 109. ISBN 978-0-9941065-8-2.

[1]