Talk:University Endowment Lands

Revisions to the table

Hmmm... not sure about adding all the Island municipalities (and bodies of water) to the table. It's a lot cleaner, and more useful, if we keep it to neighbouring municipalities IMHO. (The centre colour is a nice touch, though!) --Ckatz 19:40, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

UEL in zone 1

I was thinking of replacing the article's last sentence in the first paragraph with: "While not within Vancouver city limits and not controlled by the City of Vancouver, it is commonly referred to as part of Vancouver in casual conversation. For example, Canada Post uses Vancouver for UEL addresses. Additionally, the UEL is part of Zone 1 (the most inner-city zone) in TransLink’s zone fare system." to emphasize how for all practical purposes UEL is part of Vancouver. Any second opinions?

I think that's more appropriate for TransLink's fares article (it's already on that article). -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 23:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

ARTICLE

The sole purpose of this article is to cover the UEL, is it not?

1.The many references to the UBC lands make the article confusing and misleading.

2.UBC and the UEL are different entities. For example a resident of Hampton Place lives on land owned by the University (99 year lease). Whereas a resident of the UEl is not subjected to such a lease. http://www.ubc.ca/about/campus.html

3.The map covering both the UEL and UBC is also misleading. SEE http://uel.ceiarchitecture.com/uelmap.asp

-I recommend the establishment of a separate UBC lands article.

-The current article would only make sense in the event of an amalgamation between the UEl and UBC.

-In the meantime I'll head this article under UEL/UBC

!!!MASSIVE CLEAN-UP IS NEEDED!!!

However, most (if not all) maps out there put UBC as within the UEL, but separately owned. (I have NEVER seen a mapbook that separates UBC within the UEL via anything more than an institutional border, which exists for many other entities within other cities as well.) That's the difference -- there is the same difference with SFU and Burnaby. This article talks a lot about UBC because ultimately, the history and development of the UEL is dependent on the university (I suggest a re-reading of the history section of the article). Without such an emphasis, there is really nothing truly noteworthy about the UEL at all. And as for the residents living at Hampton Place, they are ultimately living on university property, which is separately owned. It's not a question of whether UBC is within the UEL (because it is) but rather a question of land ownership. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 09:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Why not establish a separate UBC Campus article?--24.80.25.172 00:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

If a referendum was to be held (in the UEL) to determine the status of the UEL proper, someone in Hampton place would not be allowed to vote.

The campus is not apart of the UEL, "The University Endowment Lands community (also known as University Hill) is situated adjacent to the campus to the east..."

The acronym "UEL" has simply lost meaning.

The stats you used are from the statcan website are they not, the heading of that article is University Endowment Area, not UEL

For more information please contact the UEL lands office

5495 Chancellor Blvd

Tel. 604-660-1810

I will certainly check it out, but please do remember that people also say that Burnaby is adjacent to SFU, so just because it says that doesn't make it so. Also, the quote says "The University Endowment Lands community", so I think there's a strong chance you're misinterpreting that line -- the community of the UEL is different from the UEL itself, like how SFU is not really part of the community of Burnaby but next to it. -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 06:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The historic UEL community is on the north end near UHill elementary, however, the UEL itself is much lager than that. I've just changed the wording re UEL location (initially it said between UBC and Vancouver - this is not true - clearly the UEL neighbourood just discussed is more north of campus and west of Vancouver than between the two. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.57.148 (talk) 16:36, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:COA-BC-Large.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Land Claims?

What a huge sleight on the Musqueam community. This article gives absolutely no mention of the land claims history in UEL, nor does it include Musqueam among groups to be consulted in the event that UEL be developed or changed. Musqueam has not signed any treaty or consented to the extinguishment of its title, and to this date, maintains a title claim to its traditional territories, which include the UEL. The Province recognizes this and therefore will be engaging in treaty negotiations with Musqueam. The facts are easily accesible for those who care: the Province has been trying to shuffle sections of the UEL off to "third party" groups as a means to prevent traditional territories from being included in the treaty process -- any Crown land handed off to a third party is considered beyond the treaty process. In 2005, the Supreme court ruled against the province for surreptitiously shuffling land (the UBC Golf course) onto a third party (UBC). The same tactic was tried, with more success, 20 years ago, when the province forced Pacific Spirit Park on the GVRD. the GVRD finally accepted the transfer on condition that it "not prejudice future aboriginal claims to the land". Recenlty, UEL residents reacted with anger when they found out that the Golf Course may be transferred to Musqueam as a result of negotiations. Their anger of course stems from a total lack of understanding vis-a-vis the history. This wiki article is only one example of the manipulated history that informs UEL residents in their own politics.

Before tossing around claims of "manipulated history", I'd suggest you take the time to go through the article's edit history. I'd be surprised if you can find any suggestion of a conscious effort to avoid the land claims issue. Indeed, I suspect it is more likely that the regulars who tend this page just aren't up on the particulars of the situation. You'll find that you can get a lot farther by asking politely, and providing verifiable facts and useful links, rather than by making unsubstantiated accusations. --Ckatz^chat_spy 09:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I actually might not have presumed anything about the author, had I not read the section about consultations: "Development, in large part, is very limited -- for any proposed developments in the UEL by the Greater Vancouver Regional District or the University of British Columbia, the following groups must be consulted beforehand: university students, university staff, university faculty, environmental groups, businesses, residents and the general public." The writer seems to deliberately leave out that if the Province wants to develop or sell the land, it is actually legally bound to consult Musqueam -- and in fact, legally speaking, that obligation is far more serious than the obligations of the GVRD and UBC to the "university students, university staff, university faculty, environmental groups, businesses, residents and the general public". For example, I myself am a student at the university who has only been "consulted" on a small fraction of development projects in the UEL, especially on South Campus, where the University conducts no consultations whatever. There have been no legal repercussions for the university, in contrast to the court's 2005 decision to order a reversal of the Province's bad-faith sale of the Golf Course to UBC in 2003. Anyways, the person who wrote this article cites other articles that discuss Musqueam. Actually, anybody who researches the UEL for an article, especially an article as comprehensive as the one here, will come across information on Musqueam. If the author knows nothing about Musqueam, or about the Province's illegal Golf Course transfer, s/he is exceptional among those who know about the UEL. But that is secondary to another question: Why do you care more about my "unsubstantiated accusations" than about the fact that Musqueam have been made invisible in this article?

Greater Vancouver Electoral Area A, British Columbia

The UEL is now part of the RD system, and residents AFAIK no longer pay their property taxes direct to the provincial government as the second paragraph says; not sure what date this was effected on or would add it; see Greater Vancouver Electoral Area A, British Columbia.Skookum1 (talk) 14:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

UEL-OCP link; other comments above

In External Links, University Endowment Lands - Official Community Plan link is not working due to the www.ceiarchitecture.com/ website being unavailable today.

I agree with the comments above in ARTICLE that there are some confusing references to what is in the UEL as opposed to UBC.RGB2 (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

UBC in the UEL?

Is UBC included within the UEL?

The article starts off by saying: "This article is about the unincorporated area west of Vancouver. For the university located within the University Endowment Lands, see University of British Columbia." (So the University of BC is located within the UEL.)

But then immediately below that in the paragraph: "...but the UEL does not include the University of British Columbia nor private housing on the University campus." (So the University in NOT in the UEL.)

Which is it?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.36.46.179 (talk) 18:46, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Wording is hte issue; the university's grounds are not part of the local governance system of the UEL, they're outside it though still within the UEL as a geographic concept (but not within its government, that is). It's one of the problems of terminology that's around, like the confusion of the government known as Metro Vancouver with the regional district and actual territorial definition still called the Greater Vancouver Regional District. Pacific Spirit Park is in the UEL, but not governed by the UEL's local government (it's governed by the GVRD parks division and also the Musqueam Nation and, perhaps, UBC< I'm not sure). The article should distinguish between the UEL as a geographic unit and its other meaning as a particular community and not-quite-government of only part of it...I wish I could make that clearer, but it's not clear to start with. It's also why it's inconvenient to discuss Electoral Area A as if it were a meaningful governmental unit, or meaningful community; as the UEL community is self-constituted within it; much the way the Islands Trust supersedes the regional districts which include the islands under its jurisdiction, and is itself separate from the communities and their organizations which have arisen there.....it's all a grey area, simply put. Maybe someone else can explain it differently; but UBC is part of hte UEL in the same way that SFU is on top of Burnaby Mountain but "not part of it" in administrative terms; the one meaning is a place, the other is an administrative unit....add in a regional district taht residents of the UEL woudl rather not deal with and its gets all the trickier to talk about; also in usage terms, if someone says they live in the UEL, the old sense of that would mean the residential areas in teh angle of Wesbrook and University Boulevards, and not the areas west of Blanca which would someone woudl say they "live in Point Grey". Point Grey is a neighbourhood is the adjoining part of Vancouver, technically; while Point Grey as a point is out past UBC....i.e. the tip of the UEL, what is otherwise known as Wreck Beach (which has its own, um, self-government).Skookum1 (talk) 03:30, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I take issue with this sentence from the opening paragraph. "and although geographically located within the UEL, the University of British Columbia and private housing on university land are not under the administration of the UEL".

According to the 2005 edition of the UEL official community plan, the UEL is "nestled between the City of Vancouver and the University of British Columbia". This implies that the UEL and UBC are in fact separate entities. The original function of the UEL was to raise capital for the formation of UBC, and residential lots were later auctioned.

See Figure 1 on pg 26 of the official community plan for reference. http://www.universityendowmentlands.gov.bc.ca/library/Official_Community_Plan.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.114.135 (talk) 06:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

University Village

The current University Village is not the first commercial structure built on UEL lands. There used to be a complex there. However, it was destroyed by a fire in the mid-90s — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.177.65 (talk) 05:54, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Off topic

But does anyone know the story behind why Chancellor Boulevard does not link up with itself again as it becomes fourth avenue. Was there supposed to be some connector on the Vancouver side of Blanca that did not materialize?HyperbolicSheet (talk) 06:31, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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I propose creating a new UBC campus article for everything in this article that is related to UBC.

UEL and UBC are not the same place. The UEL is a small, affluent community that is adjacent to the City of Vancouver and UBC. Home owners own their property out right and pay property taxes.

Therefore, I think that a new Campus of UBC article should be created in order to make everything clear. The UBC campus is quite large and has scores of luxury apartments (on 99 year leases), many of which are owned by people unaffiliated with UBC. There is also a large mixed-use development in the south part of the campus.

We could always call this article "Campus of UBC" and have a section called "UEL". However, as I have stated, they are not the same place. The UEL is not in UBC and UBC is not in the UEL.\

If you want a source, here is one: http://maps.ubc.ca/PROD/index.php

Everything on the map (academic, recreational, residential) is considered part of UBC's campus, noticeably absent is the UEL. --192.40.95.20 (talk) 06:10, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Split of article into UEL and UBC

As remarked above, this article has long been muddled because people have sometimes erroneously included UBC in the UEL when they are completely separate quasi-municipalities. I have removed the references to the UBC campus lands from this article and moved any details about the latter to the page University of British Columbia Vancouver. Rfwang4 (talk) 01:42, 6 December 2024 (UTC)