Talk:Univel

This page was proposed for deletion by Piotrus (talk · contribs) on 9 January 2020.

A fact from Univel appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 September 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Univel was an early-1990s attempt to compete with Microsoft on the desktop, but one industry consultant said of the company's goal, "they're dreaming"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Univel.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by CSJJ104 (talk) 20:51, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Univel was a joint venture of Unix System Laboratories and Novell, but did not last long before the latter bought the former? Source: fns 1,2, 3 in article
- ALT1: ... that Univel was an early 1990s attempt to compete with Microsoft, but one industry consultant said "They're dreaming on the client"? Source: fn 5 in article
- ALT2: ... that in the early 1990s, Univel put out a version of the Unix operating system that did not include TCP/IP for networking? Source: fn 10 in article
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Swiss Youth Symphony Orchestra

5x expanded by Wasted Time R (talk). Self-nominated at 00:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC).[reply]

As far as I can tell, ALT1 probably has the most promise here considering the Microsoft connection, but I'm not sure if "They're dreaming on the client" is phrasing that non-techies would understand. ALT0 may also be possible if the point (that Novell bought USL) was made much clearer (with the current wording it's admittedly easy to miss). I suggest dropping ALT2 as it's too tech-centric and wouldn't make sense to readers who don't know what TCP/IP is. Another possible suggestion I could suggest could be to focus on the quote about the company being a "it was a nightmare and no one loved it" angle. I could also suggest that it was an attempt to market a Unix-on-desktop OS, but I think that may also be too techy-centric.

As for the article itself, it lacks close paraphrasing and was nominated on time of the 5x expansion. All hooks are cited inline and either verified or AGF sourced to offline sources. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:49, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Thanks for the review and the thoughts on the hooks. I don't want to use the 'nightmare' quote because I don't know if it was really representative of how people felt about it. But here are rewordings of each hook to try to accommodate your comments:

ALT0b: ... that Univel was a joint venture of Unix System Laboratories and Novell, but did not last long before one of the companies bought the other?

ALT1b: ... that Univel was an early 1990s attempt to compete with Microsoft on the desktop, but one industry consultant said "They're dreaming"?

ALT2b: ... that in the early 1990s, Univel put out a version of the Unix operating system that did not include normal access to the Internet?

See if any of these seem better to you. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:58, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I do hope you don't mind if I chime in, as I've been watching this nom for the last couple days – I'd say that ALTs 1b and 0b are decent, with some preference for the former. ALT2b feels like it oversimplifies a bit, to the point of running into WP:V problems I wouldn't wanna deal with. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 04:16, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I felt iffy about ALT2b as I was doing it, so I'm striking it. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I guess we're good to go with ALT0b and ALT1b. ALT0b's sources are verified, ALT1b's source is accepted AGF. I have a slight preference for ALT1b but I'll leave the final choice to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unencyclopedic passage, coatrack concerns

This passage bothers me, partly because it is not specifically about Univel but what allegedly transpired after their demise. It is objectively false, since Linux on the desktop has enjoyed quite a bit of success not measured in market-share. It is also written in unencyclopedic, very judgemental and subjective language. I would not object to a neutral rewrite, if the sources mention Univel or UnixWare and tie into their specific desktop efforts, but if this remains simply a general unhinged rant about stuff that happened after Univel, then I move to excise it from this article entirely. Elizium23 (talk) 03:09, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the phrase "a complex saga" is unhinged or judgmental, and my intention here is to show that Univel was not alone in failing to succeed in this particular market and rather that it was an early chapter in a long story. And I'm not sure what you mean by "Linux on the desktop has enjoyed quite a bit of success not measured in market-share". Measured in what then – that it works? positive reviews in the trade press? user satisfaction among those who do use it? Maybe if you could explain that further, and point to some sources for it, there can be a change in wording to your satisfaction. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:44, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also not seeing the unhinged-ness in that paragraph. It's a pretty sober paraphrasing of the articles which discuss Unix competing in the desktop arena and the many false starts and offshoots thereof, Univel's product being one of them. (FTR I did tone down some of the more charged wording in the original paragraph.) DigitalIceAge (talk) 06:40, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]