Talk:United States Colonial Marines (Aliens)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Colonial Marines in history

Weren't the pre-independence US Marines called "Colonial Marines?" Further, in the Alien movies, they sure looked like US Colonial Marines. Just questions, I am sure others are more informed in these matters. --PaulinSaudi (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2004 (UTC)

I've never heard of US Marines being referred to as Colonial Marines, a quick google search also doesn't turn up anything about that either. If some information does turn up about them though, I'll make "Colonial Marines" a disambiguation page. Could you elaborate a bit further on your second point? --Oberiko (talk) 17:23, 25 April 2004 (UTC)

They were called Continental Marines because they were created by the Continental Congress. --12.214.45.9 (talk) 17:30, 25 April 2004 (UTC)

The actual historical Colonial Marines were operated by the British in their remaining holdings in the Americas following the American Revolution, primarily based in their Caribbean holdings, they were administered by, and a reservist force of, the regular Royal Marines. These fictional Marines in Aliens are called 'Colonial Marines' because they operate in much that same function: protective military force in outlying colonial settlements. Although as James Cameron explains in the commentary track they actually operate in a manner more akin to the private armies & navies operated by the various European colonial corporations – i.e. Dutch East India Company – from the 1600s-1800s in that they kept the local population in line and made sure profits flowed back home. (That's likely the real reason they were sent out to LV-426, Welyan(d)-Yutani probably figured an uprising had taken place) --139.168.39.105 (talk) 01:42, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Phrasing

For crying out loud, phrases like "Really kick ass" do not belong in Wikipedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.190.81.85 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

indeed, thanks on behalf of the whole wiki community for changing that garbage. this page is on my WatchList but apparently I wasn't watching carefully enough —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue Danube (talk • contribs) 04:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Canon of the tech manual

Just how canon is the tech manual? I've noticed that the units and structures are much more along British lines (sections etc.) then American ones. Considering that the book is published in the UK, it seems like the writers error. --Beowulph (talk) 03:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I should add that this partly contradicts the movie, which uses American names for it's units (Fireteams form Squads etc.) --Beowulph (talk) 14:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The CMTM is generally considered apocryphal by fans, many of whom (in my experience) consider only the films canon. You could probably put the CMTM above the Dark Horse Comics in terms of canonicity, if only because of its sheer consistency to the films and its nature as a technical document instead of a story. That said, it's still not entirely canon. --Teflon Don (talk) 03:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Gehenna 249, Fujima 514?

I have never heard these worlds mentioned either in the movies or in the Tech Manual. The primary worlds in which operations are discussed in the Tech Manual are Linna 349 and Helene 215. Changing the article unless a source for the two worlds can be found. --Daniel J. Leivick (talk) 03:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Questionable material

I've just got a copy of the tech manual so I'm removing some stuff I don't see in it:

The USCM force was created in 2101 as the United Americas Outer Rim Defense which was later succeeded by the force under its present name after the Torin Prime Civil War against J'Har Rebels.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Beowulph (talk • contribs) 03:21, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

While the connection of the "United Americas Outer Rim Defense" to the later USCM is pure speculation, the information about the UAORD, the Toris Prime Civil War, and the J'Har Rebels all come from the character bios and timelines from the extras contained on the original Alien laserdisc/DVD release. Captain Dallas was listed as a veteran of all the above. Most of the world and background details from these bios, though, seems to be contradicted by the bios listed on the big wallscreen behind Ripley in Aliens, during her hearing. --68.17.157.78 (talk) 16:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

The year 2179 cannot possibly be correct. In Alien 3, which takes place immediately after Aliens, Doctor Clemens says that cholera has been extinct for over 200 years. Given that we haven't eradicated cholera yet, the movie is set at least 200 years into the future. Carter Burke's directive, dated 6/12/79, therefore gives us 2279 as the earliest possible year in which the movie could have taken place. Additionally, members of the US Armed Forces always wear American flags on their uniforms, usually on the shoulder. With no American flags anywhere in the movie, we can safely conclude that "US" means "United Systems" rather than "United States". --71.198.156.164 (talk) 02:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure the American flag makes no appearance? I seem to recall Gorman had an American flag patch on his uniform. --SquareWave (talk) 01:04, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, my bad. It turns out that they ARE all wearing flags, but said flags are hidden under the armor 99% of the time, making them very hard to notice. However, when the APC is being loaded onto the dropship, there are a few clips in which the flag is revealed; it's also clearly visible on Apone when the troops are being briefed, and it's barely visible on Ferro and Spunkmeyer in a few extremely brief shots. --71.198.156.164 (talk) 20:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Force Protection?

One thing that has always bugged me is the idea that the Sulaco, analogous to an amphibious assault ship of today, would deploy its entire complement of marines into battle with no sentry force left onboard. Is this reasoning ever addressed in the various fictional references? It would seem that even in a highly automated world, standard operating procedure would dictate that at least a few humans or androids remain behind for contingencies. Has anything "canon" suggested that this may have been a deliberate deviation due to the ulterior motives of the company (and probably the military as well)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SquareWave (talk • contribs) 23:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I've wondered the same thing. I suppose the relationship between Weyland-Yutani and the military in the second movie (as represented by the presence of Paul Reiser's character) could be symbolism for the relationship between private industry and the military today. Considering how everyone was deemed "expendable" by the Company in the first movie, the small number of soldiers and support deployed wouldn't be a huge loss if an Alien were to take the Sulaco and everyone killed. Given how automated everything apparently is in the movies, the "only thing" they'd have to do (considering the veracity of the Aliens....) would be then to contain the ship. So, no, nothing canon in there I suppose, but it's interesting nonetheless. --Shadowrun (talk) 18:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

United States?

If I remember correctly, according to Alien: Resurrection, "US" means "United Systems" and not "United States". Given the significant time difference between the fourth movie and the previous ones, this might've not always been the case. --Shadow86 (talk) 02:49, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

As of Aliens, it's still the "United States." It becomes the "United Systems" by the time of A:R. I don't have any canon sources for this, but official materials outside the canon (like the Colonial Marines Technical Manual) seem to indicate as much. --Teflon Don (talk) 03:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Canon sources found: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] --71.198.156.164 (talk) 23:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is a scan of Ron Cobb's original design for the United Americas flag: [9] --Cplbeaudoin (talk) 00:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Slain/Captured

It should be noted that although some were slain outright during the combat (Frost, Crowe, Ferro, Gorman, Vasquez, Wierzbowski, Drake and Spunkmeyer), others, such as Dietrich, Apone, and apparently Hudson, were captured alive by the aliens and likely served as unwilling hosts for the facehuggers.

It might be appropriate to reword this, as it seems to imply that (except for those who escaped), the aliens killed most of the marines, and captured the remainder. However, two were killed accidently (one hit by a flamer, the other by the exploding ammo ignited by the flamer), Drake was killed by acid splash from an alien shot by Vasquez, and Vasquze and Gorman commited suicide to avoid being killed/captured. While all we know about Hudson was that he was pulled through the floor; there is nothing to indicate (as far as I could tell) whether he was then killed, or dragged off to be cocooned.

I'll change this shortly, unless anyone objects). --212.159.79.130 (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I object;

However, two were killed accidently (one hit by a flamer, the other by the exploding ammo ignited by the flamer) *the weapons were caused to go off by the alien, indirect or not it killed them.*

Drake was killed by acid splash from an alien shot by Vasquez *So he was killed by part of an alien in an attempt to prevent him being killed by an alien*

Vasquze and Gorman commited suicide to avoid being killed/captured *In effect the alien forced them to commit suicide*

While all we know about Hudson was that he was pulled through the floor; there is nothing to indicate (as far as I could tell) whether he was then killed, or dragged off to be cocooned *This one is my fav, knowing what we do about the alien what do you think happened? it took him to lunch?* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.63.167 (talk • contribs) 16:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)